Real Fiero Tech

There really was no point - at all. I was bored.

Lol... Yeah, we're the only ones in and trolling the forum on a Saturday night...

E34's can take 18x10 rear wheels w/ 20mm offset and 18x9.5 front wheels w/ 7mm offset; FYI.

My E34 has a clear bra on the hood. For protection and shit.

I don't really like the E34 much; I would do an E39 instead.

Keep in mind that the 6 cylinder E39's have front-steer rack and pinion, while the 8 cylinder cars had rear steer recirculating ball/worm+sector. Since the 8's were shorter and still front sump, there wasn't room for the rack in front of the crossmember in those cars.

However, with most of the LSx pans being rear sump, the 6 cylinder E39's would be better swap cars than the 8's. AFAIK, the booster and engine compartment layout is otherwise the same.

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Keep in mind that the 6 cylinder E39's have front-steer rack and pinion, while the 8 cylinder cars had rear steer recirculating ball/worm+sector. Since the 8's were shorter and still front sump, there wasn't room for the rack in front of the crossmember in those cars.

However, with most of the LSx pans being rear sump, the 6 cylinder E39's would be better swap cars than the 8's. AFAIK, the booster and engine compartment layout is otherwise the same.

The 6-cylinder E39s have an aluminum subframe, and the 8-cylinder E39's have a nice welded tubular steel subframe. I'm not sure I would want to mount a big high-torque motor and have giant wheels and tires applying loads to the 6-cyl subframe, since it's presumably weaker.

The weight of the bodies was close and the tire size was similar between the 8's and the 6's. A 530i and 540i would generate the same cornering forces when equipped with the same wheels and tires. I don't know why the 6 cylinder subframe would be weaker. BMW overbuilds the F@#$ out of a lot of stuff anyway.

The welded steel frame may simply be heritage from the E34.

The Dark Side of Will wrote: I PM'd Fair about the possibility of using an LS4 front manifold on the E36 left side as well as some pics linked from Pfiffle.

I bought a pair off ebay and sent them to Vorshlag. Should be interesting to see how it looks.

Throwing down dollars... shit just got real.

Also: E39 540i swap: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1517185

E39 528i LS using 6 cylinder subframe: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1489862

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Also: E39 540i swap: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1517185

That swap is basically my backup plan if the E46 or E36 don't work out. I think I could perform a similar modification to the manifolds to clear the chassis and still pass smog in CA. I would basically just replace the flange with something more compact, or move it further up or down, while retaining the O2 sensor boss.

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Throwing down dollars... shit just got real.

I guess that means I get my own thread.

Eh... I had a few minutes and was avoiding doing something more productive. It did take a little creativity to figure out how to *copy* the first few posts of this thread out of the S62 thread.

Fair's pics of the V8 engine position in the E46 body really got me thinking...
Looks like it's about perfect for TBSS front drive hardware. T56 + AWD + 4.11's = WIN!

Fair;23032422 wrote:Look how low that aluminum LS1 block sits in the chassis! And with 6 of the 8 cylinders located behind the front axle centerline, that's good for lower CG and better fore:aft weight balance than the long & tall straight BMW 6. That gave me an idea, and I took these pictures to show how different the LS1 motor length and installed location is compared to the stock M54 motor:



And fore:aft location of other Vorshlag V8 swaps, the E30 and E36/Z3 (can you see why I'm not a fan of E30 LS1 swaps?):

Series8217 wrote:

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Throwing down dollars... shit just got real.

I guess that means I get my own thread.

Like a Bawss

The Dark Side of Will wrote:E34's can take 18x10 rear wheels w/ 20mm offset and 18x9.5 front wheels w/ 7mm offset; FYI.

That's decent. Not quite the 18+"x10.5"F and whatever " x 11" rear my '84 T/A will take, but decent.
Now, what is this "Vorshlag" graffiti on all those other pics? Is he the V8Archibald of the Bimmer community?

Atilla the Fun wrote:

The Dark Side of Will wrote:E34's can take 18x10 rear wheels w/ 20mm offset and 18x9.5 front wheels w/ 7mm offset; FYI.

That's decent. Not quire the 18+"x10.5"F and whatever " x 11" rear my '84 T/A will take, but decent.

It's a different thing to actually have a suspension design that allows you to utilize the rubber...

Now, what is this "Vorshlag" graffiti on all those other pics? Is he the V8Archibald of the Bimmer community?

No.. they are actually involved in motorsports, not in hacking apart Fieros to stuff carbed V8s in them and screw over poor Fiero owners.

They mainly make competition suspension parts for various sports cars.

They also build a nice E36 LSx install kit and are working on one for the E46.

They won the Grassroots Motorsports $2011 Challenge with their LSx V8 E30.

Vorschlag actually does *good* work. Their AST/Motons will be an option when I get Bad Idea on the road. The AWD front struts are very different than the RWD front struts, however.

Pretty much all BMW's are lousy at using their front tires. That's why there are camber plates for them. The semi-trailing arm rear ends that the earlier cars use and the multi-link that E36's and newer use have pretty good camber performance, but BMW's front suspensions are not very good at all from that perspective.

I've seen a picture of a prepped E36 on big wide slicks in mid-corner. The car has signficant body roll. The rear tire is vertical and in full contact with the pavement. The front tire is up on its outside corner.

Series8217 wrote:

Atilla the Fun wrote:

The Dark Side of Will wrote:E34's can take 18x10 rear wheels w/ 20mm offset and 18x9.5 front wheels w/ 7mm offset; FYI.

That's decent. Not quire the 18+"x10.5"F and whatever " x 11" rear my '84 T/A will take, but decent.

It's a different thing to actually have a suspension design that allows you to utilize the rubber...

Third gens are actually known for amazing cornering power. What else could pull 0.87g on 215/65R15 tires back in '82? NOTHING! Hell, nothing at all was pulling those Gs back then, on any size of street rubber. Even the '84 'vette had to have the optional, race-only Z51 option package to beat that number.
The first car to ever pull 1.08 Gs on Goodyear Eagle CS-CS tires was also a stock-suspension-geometry third-gen.
Modified MacPherson struts aren't the ultimate, but among the cars that use them, third-gens ARE THE ultimate.
Love your bimmers all you want, fine. Fieros take a hell of a lot to stomp a real F355, but third-gens are ready to tackle any bimmer on a dollar-for-dollar basis, a built-in-potential for cheap,easy, affordable upgrades basis, a restored future value basis, or most any other real-world basis. What bimmer has ever been pushed past 300 MPH, with stock appearance and aero, no less? What stock-chassis ( and suspension layout ) -plus-cage bimmer has ever been pushed into the 8s on pump gas in the 1/4 mile?
Don't ever use a mere bimmer to attack third-gen possibilities. Trying that just makes you look stupid.

Lol... Go read about European drag racing.