bought an l67 fiero, what parts do i need to go turbo?

[Formula]

I recently purchased an l67 87gt with the 4t65hd transmission and obd2 computer. It seems to run alright, but its kind of slow (I just sold my 11 second mustang - 2009 with vortech v3@12psi, a2a intercooler, gt500 fuel pumps, 60# injectors, pro tuned, 1 piece driveshaft, 4.10 gears, 2 step, no lift, et streets, etc.. trapped around 125mph). There is a local shop that does awesome fab work, so I would outsource all the exhaust and tuning to them (they have a mustang dyno - and hptuners). I need a list of the parts that I should start trying to find to get this build started. Also, I know on another forum people get a bunch of crap for this, but I don't mind cutting the trunk out. I have an a2a intercooler that is good up to around 400whp (it started choking my mustang there) sitting in my garage, but I'm thinking a2w would be better in this situation. What is really necessary and what is overrated (I'm not a big fan of butt dynos, trap speeds and real dynos mean a lot more). I would like to do a budget build, but I know you have to pay to play.

[Shaun41178(2)]

whats your hp goal and whats your budget?

[Formula]

I would like low 11s, not sure what hp level that would be with a fiero because the 60' times are insane (400whp?). Let's start with $3k for budget for the turbo, intercooler, injectors, intake, plugs, wastegate and blow off valve (and other core things I may be missing). It already has a walboro 255 fuel pump.

I will guess that the custom fab stuff will be another $2k on top, plus I want the shop to go over the swap that's in there and make sure everything looks ok - In this area I'm including a wideband, fuel pressure gauge, iat gauge, exhaust, intake pipe, filter, lines/hoses, etc...

I don't know if it is worth it to upgrade the cam, torque converter, heads, or exhaust manifolds for the $$$/ET ratio. Let me know if you guys think this is doable.

[The Dark Side of Will]

400 WHP should be good for mid-low 11's if your setup is optimized.

The torque converter can pay big dividends if you're altering the engine's powerband. The converter needs to allow the engine to spool the turbo to some extent. Don't relegate it to the "poor ET/$$ ratio" pile.

[Shaun41178(2)]

I gotta ask what mods are done to your 3800 already? Do you know how much you are putting down power wise now? Modified blower cars have hit mid 11s in fieros without the use of nitrous

I am not sure if you are against ntrous but a pulley swap,tune intake,tb and headers with a 100 shot will run 11s no prob and prob save you some money.

without nitrous and those mods will prob get you a mid 12 but your mph won't be there. Maybe 112mph or so. With a 75-100 shot would easily get you an 11 sec timeslip
.
If you def want to go turbo than a 67mm turbo would be a good choice to go with. Precision makes a nice billet version for about 1k bucks. Tial mvs 38mm gate should work just fine. 60lb Injectors will be enough fuel. with a turbo I would go with a 3k stall

[Formula]

The 3800 is completely stock. It has a walboro 255 fuel pump, so other then that I would have to modify everything. From what I've been reading, it looks like it would be cheaper to go turbo then to modify the blower setup. It looks like the holset hx35 turbo is pretty reasonably priced used and there is a local shop that rebuilds them.

[Shaun41178(2)]

IMO the holsets are junk. Its old school wheel technology. Will it work? Sure, but there are much better options out there that will give you more power with less boost and weight a lot less. I mean why would you want to bolt a 60 lb turbo to your engine? Its totally unnecessary. My turbo weighs 16 lbs. Thats a lot less weight to have bolted to your exhaust manifolds.

Depending on the compressor wheel, your hx35 might have a 56mm compressor wheel(8 blade wheel) the 7 blade hx35 has a 61mm compressor wheel. First off the 56mm compressor wheel is way too small for a 3800 in my opinion. At least if you want to make more than a modified blower setup. IMO you need a minimum of a 61mm wheel if you want to maintain some sort of efficiency.

So how much does a used hx35 doorstop go for? How much to have it rebuilt? My buddy just spent $600 having his gt42 rebuilt.

Here are a couple of turbos to look at.
Here is a 62mm billet compressor wheel. With this vband exh housing, matched with the "E" compressor housing allows for a very tight packaging turbo, that doesn't weight much, but still flows a lot of air to make good power. Think of the size of a T3 turbo from a thunderbird but able to make twice as much power
http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -1392.html

Here is the same but a 67mm
http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -2710.html

If you get the standard 4 bolt housing on the exh side, you can buy the flange that NOSRAC's buddy on the other forum makes and sells on ebay. With that flange the turbo can be bolted to the factory exhaust manifolds or aftermarket headers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140762823779?_r ... =1&vxp=mtr

Now if those are out of budget you could go with this 59mm turbo for $650 which can support 600 hp.
http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -2467.html

With a cam, headers, larger tb, intercooler, 3.0 pulley, 42lb injectors, and a ported blower, you could probably come close to 400 whp. Not sure how much all that would cost though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68oEIdUrOCo

[Formula]

cool, thanks

Those are a lot nicer turbos then the holset. I might go back through and price upgrading the sc vs turbocharging, if I could get to 400whp w/o nitrous then I would be pretty happy.

[The Dark Side of Will]

A 400 WHP supercharged engine is going to be much more cammed up and strung out than a turbo engine at the same power.

[Formula]

IMO the holsets are junk. Its old school wheel technology. Will it work? Sure, but there are much better options out there that will give you more power with less boost and weight a lot less. I mean why would you want to bolt a 60 lb turbo to your engine? Its totally unnecessary. My turbo weighs 16 lbs. Thats a lot less weight to have bolted to your exhaust manifolds.

Depending on the compressor wheel, your hx35 might have a 56mm compressor wheel(8 blade wheel) the 7 blade hx35 has a 61mm compressor wheel. First off the 56mm compressor wheel is way too small for a 3800 in my opinion. At least if you want to make more than a modified blower setup. IMO you need a minimum of a 61mm wheel if you want to maintain some sort of efficiency.

So how much does a used hx35 doorstop go for? How much to have it rebuilt? My buddy just spent $600 having his gt42 rebuilt.

Here are a couple of turbos to look at.
Here is a 62mm billet compressor wheel. With this vband exh housing, matched with the "E" compressor housing allows for a very tight packaging turbo, that doesn't weight much, but still flows a lot of air to make good power. Think of the size of a T3 turbo from a thunderbird but able to make twice as much power
http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -1392.html

Here is the same but a 67mm
http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -2710.html

If you get the standard 4 bolt housing on the exh side, you can buy the flange that NOSRAC's buddy on the other forum makes and sells on ebay. With that flange the turbo can be bolted to the factory exhaust manifolds or aftermarket headers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140762823779?_r ... =1&vxp=mtr

Now if those are out of budget you could go with this 59mm turbo for $650 which can support 600 hp.
http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -2467.html

With a cam, headers, larger tb, intercooler, 3.0 pulley, 42lb injectors, and a ported blower, you could probably come close to 400 whp. Not sure how much all that would cost though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68oEIdUrOCo

Does it make sense to use the t4 vband (and http://www.speedmaxperformance.com/Stor ... t_id=29898) with the ebay t4 adapter? Would I would want the .58 A/R on the 6262 because the 3800 doesn't rev real high?

Here is the 6262 I found: http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -1944.html for some reason your link doesn't let you change the exhaust housing. Sorry, I've never built a turbo car so I'm learning as I go.

[Shaun41178(2)]

You could use that adapter along with the ebay t4 adapter. however I think it might be unnecessary. You could just weld that t4 to vband adapter to the factory exhaust. I recommend you find out if the flange you posted the link to is stainless or not.

If you go with the Vband on the in and out of the exhaust housing, it only comes in one a/r and that is .82

If you go with any other housing like a T4, then you wont need that vband adapter you posted a link to.

If your goal is only 400 whp, than a .58 t4 housing will spool quick on a 3800 yet still provide an easy 400 hp. If you might want to make more than 400 eventually, I would get the larger .68. The .84 T4 that is offered is a divided exh housing and isn't recommended as your exh pulses aren't set up to take advantage of a divided housing in the first place.

The smaller .58 will spool quicker than the .68 but maybe by only a couple hundred rpm. probably won't be noticeable. Exhaust backpressure will be higher on the .58 which means it won't be as efficient with the more boost you run as it will start to become a restriction.

I recommend going with the larger .68 if you get the T4 housing unless you decide to get the Vband on the in and out. Then of course it only comes in a .82. But trust me, its a smaller housing overall than a t4. its basically a larger t3 hotside. It is very compact and weighs less than a standard t4 exh housing.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The .84 T4 that is offered is a divided exh housing and isn't recommended as your exh pulses aren't set up to take advantage of a divided housing in the first place.

I *think* that the 3800 firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6, which *IS* appropriate for a divided housing. I just question how appropriate a .82 T4 housing is to an otherwise stock 3800...

[Shaun41178(2)]

I just question how appropriate a .82 T4 housing is to an otherwise stock 3800...

Why? you think too big? Maybe, if you had a 76mm compressor wheel and you only revved the engine to 6k rpm. yea it could be a tad big. however this is on a 62mm compressor wheel that Formula is thinking about going with. With the auto trans, he will have positive manifold pressure before 3k rpm even with a .82 T4 housing.

Firing order of 3800



Divided housings do work, but not if Formula is going to bolt it to a stock exhaust manifold configuration. Exh pulses won't be separated, so its useless to have a divided housing on a 3800 unless you build a custom manifold setup with a divided inlet flange.

Plus with the turbo located where most 3800 guys are putting them, the turbo is wthin approximately 8 inches of the head making for a very short exhaust path for 3 cylinders. This will help to allow quick spool as velocity is still very high.

[Formula]

I'm a little bit confused about the exhaust housings.

On this turbo: http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -1944.html

at the bottom of the page where you select the exhaust housing it only gives options for t-3 and t-4 vbolt, I don't see a t-4 regular housing - or does the t3 4 bolt housing work with the t4? the vbolt looks nice, but I think that ebay t4 flange would save me a bunch of time if the turbo just bolted on.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Divided housings do work, but not if Formula is going to bolt it to a stock exhaust manifold configuration. Exh pulses won't be separated, so its useless to have a divided housing on a 3800 unless you build a custom manifold setup with a divided inlet flange.

Obviously he'd have to mount the turbo over the transmission and build the crossover such that it didn't "crossover" and simply routed the gas flow from each bank to one of the housing inlets.

[Shaun41178(2)]

I'm a little bit confused about the exhaust housings.

On this turbo: http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... -1944.html

at the bottom of the page where you select the exhaust housing it only gives options for t-3 and t-4 vbolt, I don't see a t-4 regular housing - or does the t3 4 bolt housing work with the t4? the vbolt looks nice, but I think that ebay t4 flange would save me a bunch of time if the turbo just bolted on.

to make it easy if you get the t4 housing with the .68 at then it will bolt to that flange made by nosracs friend. If you get the t4 .58, that will also work also. The v band in the description is to let you know that the outlet of the exh housing has a vband connection on it

Anything t3 will not work with the flange that nosracs friend sells on ebay

[AkursedX]

to make it easy if you get the t4 housing with the .68

This.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Any progress to report?

[Formula]

Not yet, I've replaced all the calipers,rotors,pads, brake lines, brake hoses, master cylinder and brake booster with various upgrades (grand am brakes, blazer master, s10 booster, fiero store ss lines/hoses, etc..).

I also bought a new harness from reddevilriver with a 98 pcm, the harness that is in the car is a mess. It should be here pretty soon.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Not yet, I've replaced all the calipers,rotors,pads, brake lines, brake hoses, master cylinder and brake booster with various upgrades (grand am brakes, blazer master, s10 booster, fiero store ss lines/hoses, etc..).

I also bought a new harness from reddevilriver with a 98 pcm, the harness that is in the car is a mess. It should be here pretty soon.

My personal take is that the Grand Am "upgrade" is a waste of time... go LeBaron.