Real Fiero Tech

I wish I could not have to worry about dropping a motor

Eh, I'll just put a new one in it!

Images courtesy of SpeedtrialUSA

I dropped in a Griffin 1-25201-X radiator this week, and I'm hitting Buttonwillow tomorrow, which is forecasted to be 73*F. I still have the Spal fan but I didn't have a chance to shroud it yet. Looking at the front end again, I think the radiator shrouding could use some work as well. I also wonder if running some spats/shrouds out all the way to the front of the splitter could help keep more air in the radiator duct.

The Griffin 1-25201-X radiator has two rows of 1" wide tubes on a 2.5" total thickness core, and aluminum endtanks. I haven't taken the endtanks off my stock Fiero radiator, but it looks like one 1.25" row. Overall dimensions for the Griffin are about the same as the Fiero radiator, but it's 1" shorter overall. I'll do a complete writeup with pics in my build thread when I have more time for a full update.

Nice. I'd love to make it back out to Buttonwillow again. That's where I did my first track day ever. It would be cool to have some times just to see the difference from then until now. Good track minus the desert.

Good luck and I'm looking forward to reading your updates

The Griffin radiator works great. Same air temps as November but the coolant gauge never moved higher than maybe 210... and I was pushing it hard. Didn't get any lifter tap this time either.

The new (two autocrosses and 200 miles of street driving) Porterfield R4 brake pads faded after a single lap in the first session, but I guess they just needed to be bedded more than I could on the street and autoX. I pulled off and let them cool and the next time out they were great! No appreciable fade, and they didn't disintegrate like the R4-S pads.

I still ran a 2:12 as my best time but far more confidently. New Hankook RS3s on the rear and some tweaking of the tire pressures seems to have helped a lot with the rear end. I guess my old RS3s were heat-cycled out. The rear is much more controllable now. Just need more camber for the front so it stops pushing.

I'll post a video of my fast lap when I have time to process it. I had all my cameras running this time.

Unfortunately I flat-spotted one of my 70% tread front tires so bad I can see the car move up and down driving at low speed. Still having issues with the front left locking up first, and the bias adjuster I bought from Aaron Kemp had a problem with the seal so I'm waiting on a new one of those. Once I have more rear brake bias I think it'll be harder to lock up the fronts so easily.

When I got to the tire shop on Monday I found out that Hankook stopped production of the RS3 to tool up for a new version.... and my front tires are out of stock everywhere in the country. None left on Craigslist either. So after 240 miles of highway and less than 20 laps on the track, I have to sell my basically brand new rear tires and get a different tire altogether. I ordered a whole new set of BF Goodrich Rivals. These may actually end up being better than the RS3s for now anyway, since they supposedly perform well on camber-challenged cars.

Made a new friend with a similar car too!



We were running pretty much identical times. His car has some weight reduction, aero (ducted hood, diffuser, rear wing), brakes, and some other odds and ends. Power output might be stock. Tires were Dunlop ZII's.. I think 215 front 255 rear?

Cool picture.

Yeah, cool pic. It's nice to find decent people with similar interests.

Massive rainstorm coming through today, tomorrow, and maybe Sunday... and I'm signed up for two full days of NASA HPDE at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana starting tomorrow morning. This is going to be interesting!

A good way to tell yuo have overheated or have worn out Hankooks is look for the Blue tinge. I had several sets on My S197 (285/35/18 all around) and if you cooked them they always turned a slight shade of blue... Best tire out there IMHO.

Still miss this car... POS 964

THE PUNISHER wrote:A good way to tell yuo have overheated or have worn out Hankooks is look for the Blue tinge. I had several sets on My S197 (285/35/18 all around) and if you cooked them they always turned a slight shade of blue... Best tire out there IMHO.

Still miss this car... POS 964

I blued my fronts before, but this time they were just straight up worn out on the rears. Down to the wear bars anyway.

I hope these Rivals have some benefits over the RS3... might not find out right away since it's pouring rain all weekend.

Buddy of mine likes his rivals better then RS3's on his E46 M3, I dunno... RS3's have a lower tread wear rating... My dad runs Nitto NT01's on his 997S but they get greasy when too hot

THE PUNISHER wrote:Buddy of mine likes his rivals better then RS3's on his E46 M3, I dunno... RS3's have a lower tread wear rating...

They're the same. Hankook changed the treadwear rating on the RS3 a year or two ago to 200 without changing the compound.

The Rivals work well in the dry (not so much in the wet; more on that later). Like the RS3s, I still have to run high pressures (over 40 psi hot) to keep the sidewall from rolling over, but wear on the rears seems to be a lot better. I need more camber up front.. the car has a lot of mid-corner understeer and I'm wearing the edges of the front tires rapidly.

Here's my fastest lap from Sunday (2:04): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8r5zMC-rDA

I'm running in NASA HPDE 3 now. Pretty much every session is an open track. Very little traffic, and everyone is watching their mirrors to accommodate passing. Good times!

Still no cooling problems since I put the Griffin radiator in. I don't get much lifter tap when I push it hard anymore either, so the oil-to-water heat exchanger is probably working better with the lower coolant temps.

Oh yeah, it was pouring rain on Saturday.... I'll have to post some video of the wettest session -- it got crazy. I think I even captured a few lightning strikes with my GoPros . The BFG Rivals have no grip in the wet, and hydroplane very easily even at speeds under 60 mph.

I am so frigin jealous. I still have 3 feet of snow in my front yard and you have been racing for weeks... It was -32* last night...

Nice lap man, unless I'm confused I've raced that track in Forza. Not sure which one, probably 3 but it's a fun track. High HP cars definitely have an advantage with that long stretch.

crzyone wrote:I am so frigin jealous. I still have 3 feet of snow in my front yard and you have been racing for weeks... It was -32* last night...

Nice lap man, unless I'm confused I've raced that track in Forza. Not sure which one, probably 3 but it's a fun track. High HP cars definitely have an advantage with that long stretch.

Doing anything May 3/4? Want to make a trip down to Nevada and run Spring Mountain?

Another epic, epic weekend at Buttonwillow Raceway!

I installed a brake proportioning adapter from aaron88 on Friday before heading to the track, and dialed in some more rear brake bias. HOLY $#!&! Adding some more rear brake bias transformed the car. Three major things happened: 1) The front brakes no longer overheat after a few hot laps, because they aren't working as hard now that the rears do something. 2) Overall braking is SIGNIFICANTLY increased. I had trouble locking up the brakes. It just stopped harder and harder and harder. Braking was very progressive. 3) I can now brake hard enough without locking up that the brake pedal is finally down to the height of the gas pedal.... which means heel-toeing is finally possible. Fanastic!



Also, quite importantly, I got my adjustable upper control arms built, installed, and adjusted for a final setting of -3 camber and +10 caster up front. Front tire wear is pretty damn good now. Not much mid-corner understeer, though there still is a bit. The car is stable enough with my tire package and alignment settings to drop the throttle a bit and get the nose to tuck in, but I'd rather be able to stay in it and have the car rotate some. I'm going to work on swaybars next -- I'm still not running a rear bar but it seems that now the time is right.

I spent Saturday getting up to speed and working on corners, but on Sunday I kept running into a tire temperature wall when I tried to push it for more than a lap. The track surface was just too hot around mid-day to really set a fast lap time. I also backed out a bit too due obvious signs of excessive oil temperature -- blowing oil smoke exiting the Off Ramp (slow, very tight banked right hander) and lots of lifter tap. Even the guys on race tires were losing a second or two versus their morning times, probably due to overheating their tires.

I pulled into the paddock after a cooldown lap and measured my oil pan temp with an IR gun -- 250 degrees F. Yikes. That means probably at least 280*F when I'm pushing it in the middle of the day. I plan to install an oil cooler before the next hot track weekend.

Almost everyone went home before the final session of the day, but they missed out big time... a cool breeze picked up and the track temperature dropped to match the air temp.

I set a new personal best on Buttonwillow's #13 clockwise configuration: 2:09.9. Hell ya!

Lap video:


Poor 997 GT3 couldn't keep up...

Also, the lead instructor for HPDE 3 followed me around a bit on Sunday and said I'm ready to move up to HPDE4. Just a stone's throw away from Time Trials now! I'm going to start seriously assessing my car against the competition rules to see if it's possible to be competitive in any class.

I assume you're still running the factory water/oil cooler? If it were my car, I'd add an exterior air/oil cooler as well as the water cooler, as the water cooler brings oil up to temperature quicker. And although you don't have cold starts like we do up here, 60-70 degrees is still far cold for oil. Only problem with this is that the water that goes through the cooler bypasses the radiator and goes right back through the engine. But you mentioned the new radiator brought your water temps back in control, so personally I'd leave it there.

Secondly, I'd add a deep sump oil pan to increase capacity. I know you've dealt with the draining problems, but I still don't think 6 quarts is enough for this engine the way it was designed. My pan added 1.5 quarts, and sits just above the cradle crossbars on the 2.8 engine mounts. It'd add some weight, but I think you'd greatly increase engine lifespan. And with how hard you're running it, I'm sure that's a concern with the 3.4.

I think we can safely assume the driver of the GT3 was the weakest link, no offense of course! I'm seriously envious and jealous you get to do this. Not only the racing, but the amount of knowledge, time, and resources you get to put into your Fiero. I hope someday I can do the same, though I'm fairly confident I won't be using a Fiero.

Congrats on moving up to 4. I'm assuming NASA, so you're going to have to apply for a dyno reclass because of the engine swap. I'm curious where they'll base class you. Try to play up how shitty Fieros are...

Aaron wrote:I assume you're still running the factory water/oil cooler? If it were my car, I'd add an exterior air/oil cooler as well as the water cooler, as the water cooler brings oil up to temperature quicker. And although you don't have cold starts like we do up here, 60-70 degrees is still far cold for oil. Only problem with this is that the water that goes through the cooler bypasses the radiator and goes right back through the engine. But you mentioned the new radiator brought your water temps back in control, so personally I'd leave it there.

Secondly, I'd add a deep sump oil pan to increase capacity. I know you've dealt with the draining problems, but I still don't think 6 quarts is enough for this engine the way it was designed. My pan added 1.5 quarts, and sits just above the cradle crossbars on the 2.8 engine mounts. It'd add some weight, but I think you'd greatly increase engine lifespan. And with how hard you're running it, I'm sure that's a concern with the 3.4.

I will probably leave the oil warmer in place when I install an oil-to-air cooler. I'm thinking about putting the oil-to-air cooler in the location where the stock cat was located, and building a little duct for it. This will keep the lines short and eliminate any bodywork for ducting.

I have no problem with the current engine oil capacity. What is your reason for thinking the engine needs more oil? I have watched some of my videos for any oil starvation showing up on the oil pressure gauge during high speed banked 1.2g+ corners and haven't seen anything yet.

The only oil issues right now are oil temperature and oil consumption through the intake due to the stock PCV breather system, which I'm replacing with a ProVent I got a few weeks ago (but have yet to install).

Unsafe At Any Speed wrote:Congrats on moving up to 4. I'm assuming NASA, so you're going to have to apply for a dyno reclass because of the engine swap. I'm curious where they'll base class you. Try to play up how shitty Fieros are...

Thanks!

Yup, that's the plan with the reclass. Greg now allows people to submit power and request a class, and then he assigns a new base weight, rather than submitting base weight and power and getting a class you don't want or expect. I'm going to request whatever class puts me into TTC with the points I have in aero, suspension, and tires. Whatever extra weight I have to add (if any) I will add as ballast up front so I can run a wider front tire. Then it won't affect cornering speeds, just acceleration.