Totally unoriginal LQ1 build thread

[Aaron]

A GT35R with a T4 hot side. I don't know the exact A/R numbers off hand. It make 417whp and 427wtq at 8.7psi. I'd love to get it back on the dyno, the number probably wouldn't be much better but the curve would be. Maybe I'll do that this summer.

[draven]

I'll post pics asap on this one, but while reassembling the cam carriers I took a quick look at the lifters. (I just put them in a baggie before shipping the block and heads off to the engine shop and was half way expecting to replace them for good measure) The cam lobes have gouged a divit into the contact portion of the lifter a few thousandths deep.. I know that lifters "usually" wear in a bowl shaped fashion across the contact portion where the lifter and cam come in contact and the lifter rotates somewhat freely within its slot, however, to see this much localized wear in only 15K on the lifter seems a bit odd...

Is this more likely to occur in such a short time due to inadequate oiling, ie fuel in the oil due the former oversized and untuned injectors?

Or is this more likely to occur due to the 180deg mis timing the engine underwent before it threw timing belts?

I can get ahold of a set of clevite lifters for 299$ or I can get a set of light weight INA lifters through WOT TECH for 319$ . I don't plan on revving this thing more than the stock 7250rpm; would these lighter lifters give any gain?


Series, don't know if you've already researched this but the guys at WOT TECH race an LQ1 up to 8600rpm with the INA lifters and stiffer FORD 4.6 springs..
<Correction>The INA lifters have been spun "up" to 8600, not necessarily in an LQ1..<Correction>

[Aaron]

I am running the light weight lifters in my motor, on the stock 7250 fuel cut. They'll make a difference at every rpm, just more of a difference the higher you go.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Gouges in lifters is usually do to no oil. If it had normal wear with no gouges then I would say oiling is fine.

Lol @ 8600 rpm on a cast 3.1 gm crank. I got a lot of race stuff from a circle track racer of the 60 degree motor and he would spin it to 8k rpm sometimes. He broke a couple of cranks and when rebuilding found others that were cracked. Please link this 8600 rpm race motor as I have been on that site for years and never seen that thread

[draven]

Gouges in lifters is usually do to no oil. If it had normal wear with no gouges then I would say oiling is fine.

Lol @ 8600 rpm on a cast 3.1 gm crank. I got a lot of race stuff from a circle track racer of the 60 degree motor and he would spin it to 8k rpm sometimes. He broke a couple of cranks and when rebuilding found others that were cracked. Please link this 8600 rpm race motor as I have been on that site for years and never seen that thread

My apologies...

Let me add a correction the owner of WOT TECH had "seen" the "INA Lifters" spin to 8600rpm...not necessarily in a 60degV6... my fault for glancing over the email and distributing possibly inaccurate data..

This was what I was told over email from Ben Phelps while inquiring about purchasing the INA lifters.. text of the email:

"The lifters are 48 grams dry. Stockers were upper 70s I believe...but
its been a while since I drained one out to weigh it. I am not aware of
any testing being done with a 3.4 DOHC. Have we used them?
Absolutely. Used them for a road course, track grand prix with the 3.4
DOHC and 284 manual trans. There are a lot of applications these
lifters are used in, with 8600 RPM being the highest I have seen them
used to. INA makes them. They are listed on the store under the main
60V6 category. We had an issue with someone using our software to spam
people, so the site is down while it is taken care of.


Ben Phelps
WOT-Tech"

[Aaron]

I think the short-runner intake 3.4 TDC was spun up to 7600, I'll check next time I'm home. But the rpm isn't really a concern to me. The stock ones will, obviously, spin up to 7,600 without an issue so I'm sure the 48s will go past whatever the stocks stop at. But, and especially with a turbo, are you really planning on spinning past 7250? RPM increases VE, but there's a point when the higher piston speeds and reliability downfall outweigh that, especially when you can just push a few more psi, make the same power, and have a better mannered engine.

[draven]

I think the short-runner intake 3.4 TDC was spun up to 7600, I'll check next time I'm home. But the rpm isn't really a concern to me. The stock ones will, obviously, spin up to 7,600 without an issue so I'm sure the 48s will go past whatever the stocks stop at. But, and especially with a turbo, are you really planning on spinning past 7250? RPM increases VE, but there's a point when the higher piston speeds and reliability downfall outweigh that, especially when you can just push a few more psi, make the same power, and have a better mannered engine.

No, not at all, as I stated above, I do not plan on spinning this lq1 beyond 7250, just inquiring if the lighter lifters will show any benefits other than the ability to spin the engine higher. I mentioned the 8600rpm inaccuracy for Series and his NA racing setup..

[Aaron]

Well the lifters reciprocate, so anytime you lose reciprocating mass you're going to gain power, torque, and gas mileage. If it's a noticeable difference I couldn't tell you.

[Shaun41178(2)]

The lifters Ben uses are motorcycle lifters. They might be from a Kawasaki but I don't know what engine or year or anything like that. That is prob where he got the 8600 rpm number from.

You would need one heck of a rod crank combo plus pinning the dummy camshaft bearings or use needle bearing rollers for the cam bearings as you risk spinning them and ruining the blocks.

When I bought all my v6 "race parts" the owner told me the reason he was selling is because he couldn't keep cranks from breaking and cam bearings from spinning

[draven]

Ok really dumb question here. What is a quick way to distinguish between intake and exhaust cams on the lq1? Its easy to tell which bank they belong, front bank has the longer cams.

[Aaron]

I honestly have no idea. They've got to be marked in some way though...

[draven]

ok, easy to figure out the front bank on the 96+ as the carrier has the hall effect cam sensor on the intake side of the carrier and the appropriate cam has a trigger notch and the notch is 180deg from TDC on the exhaust stroke of the #4 cylinder lobes thereby putting it in synch with the #1 cyl TDC compression stroke.

Therefore as long as the lobe splay is opposite on the rear bank for cyl #1 TDC compression as compared to the lobe splay on the #4 cyl TDC compression stroke due to opposing banks I should have them properly laid out.

Markings on the rear bank cams.

Assumed Rear bank intake cam:
2188 and CWC above journal #1 from cam gears
20 and (05 or C5) above journal #2
D2 and C2 above journal #3

Assumed Rear bank exhaust cam
2182 and CWC above journal #1 from cam gears
16 and F5 above journal #2
D2 and C2 above journal #3

[Series8217]

I mixed the up on in one head after one of my motor builds. The motor would start perfectly and then stop right away. Not easy to figure that one out. The only clue was exhaust coming out the intake.

[draven]

Installing the TTY head bolts. Clevite Mahle brand they "are" made in the USA. While finishing up one head and moving to the next I noticed that the head bolts from the second box, although the same grade, are not the same... The set I've already installed has well defined hex heads, clear stamping, etc.. while the second box of head bolts is suspiciously "chi com" in looks... much like the flywheel bolts that Series bought and compared some time ago.

I'm probably being overly paranoid but should this be a concern before I go on?

I am going to turbo this motor so would arp studs "really" be that much more beneficial? I know there are none specifically made for the lq1 but FieroObsessed over on OE did find some that would work if you took off about a half inch or tapped the block deeper.

thoughts?

[Aaron]

I can't really say, I run the stock components on my turbo motor. So far no problems, I'm running low boost but pretty high power numbers.

[Series8217]

Don't use the unmarked bolts. Please do post pictures here, and send them to Clevite as well.

[draven]

Don't use the unmarked bolts. Please do post pictures here, and send them to Clevite as well.

Just for clarity..after rereading your post I checked mine.. sorry.. they "are" marked just marked sllightly differently..

The first set of TTY head bolts installed for the first head were denoted with 10.9 and stamped "III" below it..

The second set that was less "refined" had 10.9 on it but was stamped with a dimpled top and bottom rectangle.

I'll get pics up..

Marc

[Shaun41178(2)]

if they came in the same manufacturer box, and you got them from the same retailer, they are probably ok to use. The manufacturer could have changed some stamping processes over the years, and one box you got was an older run the other as a newer run.

[draven]

if they came in the same manufacturer box, and you got them from the same retailer, they are probably ok to use. The manufacturer could have changed some stamping processes over the years, and one box you got was an older run the other as a newer run.

Kinda deducing the same thing.. as they look like they sat on the shelf for a looooong time given the small spots of corrosion and rust on the head and threads...

I might still go with the ARPs just for added insurance.. that would make ARPs on the rods "and" heads but not the mains... too bad I cannot put arps on the mains without a line bore...

I assume after I pull one torqued head back off, the gasket needs to be replace...correct?

[Series8217]

if they came in the same manufacturer box, and you got them from the same retailer, they are probably ok to use.

Both were true of the ATP (not ARP) flywheel bolts; they were from the same manufacturer in the same box from the same retailer. However, one set was 100% junk. See http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... 18#p145133

Bad idea to use fasteners that you have any question about in any critical application.