Real Fiero Tech

but why delete the VVt? it's not like DOD where it's completely unreliable (which might be an overstatement, but not the debate) megasquirt is able to control it, and it's not like you're putting in a hot cam or something, it's still just a plain old cam. The VVt does broaden the torque curve, and otherwise has no downside.

Shaun41178(2) wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:02 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:52 am Are the block casting numbers different? It doesn't look like there's enough iron to move that bolt hole outboard 4mm

The earlier blocks have the bolt pattern the same as the 2.8. there is no need to move the bolt hole out further

Eric is saying the lz9 is out a bit further. But it's close enough with a stock mount bracket to fit. If there was a second bolt boss in the lz blocks, you would prob have to enlarge the mount bracket holes slightly

Lnj cam doesn't require the bearing spacers and deletes the vvt. The lnj could possibly be reground as well

I misread Eric's post as "earlier LZ9 blocks" rather than "earlier v6/60 blocks". Yes, 4mm is well within the limits of the factory brackets to accept a slotted bolt hole.

Are you deleting VVT in order to install a distributor and run it on the Fiero ECM?

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:23 pm
I misread Eric's post as "earlier LZ9 blocks" rather than "earlier v6/60 blocks". Yes, 4mm is well within the limits of the factory brackets to accept a slotted bolt hole.

Are you deleting VVT in order to install a distributor and run it on the Fiero ECM?

I edited my previous post for clarity.

It's gonna run a microsquirt amp. Vvt is being deleted for simplicity of swap

I have yet to see anyone who kept vvt with an micro or megasquirt do a Dyno to see where their power peaks.

However j upon did dynod his with his modified vvt and it wasn't dialed in correctly. I believe power fell off before 5k rpm.

Tuning vvt on a dynod will be too costly. Lnj cam peaks around 54-5600. Vvt peaks at 5900 on gms provided Dyno chart. We are not giving up much by eliminating vvt.

We are also ditching that dual vane upper intake and going with the lz4 upper. Oh no! "But the vane allows more low end torque!". The 3.9 produces enough low end already people.

Shaun41178(2) wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:51 am It's gonna run a microsquirt amp. Vvt is being deleted for simplicity of swap

I have yet to see anyone who kept vvt with an micro or megasquirt do a Dyno to see where their power peaks.

However j upon did dynod his with his modified vvt and it wasn't dialed in correctly. I believe power fell off before 5k rpm.

Tuning vvt on a dynod will be too costly. Lnj cam peaks around 54-5600. Vvt peaks at 5900 on gms provided Dyno chart. We are not giving up much by eliminating vvt.

We are also ditching that dual vane upper intake and going with the lz4 upper. Oh no! "But the vane allows more low end torque!". The 3.9 produces enough low end already people.

VVT doesn't change peak power much... it just broadens the torque curve. That is worth something. Area under the curve is one reason Teslas are faster than ICE cars with similar power/weight. I agree that there's a point of diminishing returns, especially if a mechanism is complex and trouble-prone, like many manifold flap actuators can be over time.

J upson who knew his vvt cam was not dialed in correctly but dynod anyways just to show what can happen. This was a gtech style road Dyno. Drastic power drop.

So? Upson did a bunch of dumb stuff.

You asked why not keep the vvt. I show why, and you say "so".

Hey man, when you do your 3.9 on the stormtrooper you can spend hours tuning your vvt cam for an extra 400 of additional rpm.

Shaun41178(2) wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:08 am You asked why not keep the vvt. I show why, and you say "so".

Hey man, when you do your 3.9 on the stormtrooper you can spend hours tuning your vvt cam for an extra 400 of additional rpm.

You yourself said that he didn't have it tuned. Everything gets screwed up if it's not tuned.

My expectation (in the grim darkness of the far future) is to use a factory computer which will require minimal tuning.

FWIW when I did a deep dive into research for the LZ9, I recall the tuning for the VVT was not straight forwards and it was advanced and retarded all over the board vs having a crossover point. I think it is a good call to delete it if not running the stock ECU, unless someone can find the tables from the stock ECU and they could easily be copied over, but no idea if MS will have the correct tables to support whatever GMs strategy is.

I would love to see a reground LNJ cam make some good numbers and be a serious option for not running bearing spacers. But the one advantage to the bearing spacers and running a 3400 cam is the SBC cam bearings available for performance cams running stiffer valve springs, where with the LNJ cam you are stuck with stock LZ9 cam bearings as the only option.

It seems the camshaft is discontinued from gmparts direct.

I used the 2009 equinox lt trim which should be the 3.4

Welp. That's that I guess. No more available.

There have been several small revisions, I'm almost ready to make a formal prototype.

Looking good on that bracket.

Here is the current state of the engine. Lnj cam in, ready for some reassembly.

Hi,

Are you able to share drawings so we can print them out and do some mock-ups?

Also, how are you planning to have these manufactured? Waterjet, steel sheets and welding? Something else? Happy to have a chat offline if it's easier.

Thanks.

ericjon262 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:06 pm There have been several small revisions, I'm almost ready to make a formal prototype.

eHoward wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:34 pm Hi,

Are you able to share drawings so we can print them out and do some mock-ups?

Also, how are you planning to have these manufactured? Waterjet, steel sheets and welding? Something else? Happy to have a chat offline if it's easier.

Thanks.

ericjon262 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:06 pm There have been several small revisions, I'm almost ready to make a formal prototype.

I'm hoping to cut a prototype tuesday on my CNC plasma cutter., the two vertical parts will be made from 1/4", and the bottom plate will be 10 ga. Shoot me an address, and if all goes well, I'll put the prototype in a flat rate box and send it your way for a more final test fit.

I cut a prototype today, found a simple error in my drawing, and a spot where I needed a little more clearance.

I had made some revisions to reduce material, and ease installation, however, I needed to remove a little more near the oil pan rail to clear the oil pan flange.



the oil pan will need to be clearanced to fit one of the fiero mount's bolts. this was not an unexpected requirement, however, the clearance required has been greatly reduced from using a modified fiero bracket.



I accidently offset the front oil pan bolt in the wrong direction, simple mistake, but it was easy to catch at this phase



I then made several revisions to the drawing, I removed one of the lower oil pan bolts, fixed the offset mentioned above, and slimmed down the vertical element going to the block



Tomorrow, I'll try cutting the revised mount and see how things look, I suspect I'll have a winner at that point.

Made another sample, this one was almost spot on, except for the vertical member going to the block was still too long, I forgot to correct it when I made the other changes yesterday.



while examining this prototype, I decided the two vertical members did not need to be 1/4", so I made them 10 ga, like horizontal support. I also corrected the length of the vertical member, and will make what will hopefully be a final prototype tomorrow morning that I can send over for test fit.

ericjon262 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:50 pm Made another sample, this one was almost spot on, except for the vertical member going to the block was still too long, I forgot to correct it when I made the other changes yesterday.

Can you tighten up the slots? Do you have enough clearance in the hole for the bolt into the oil pan to allow for variability in how the vertical pieces weld into those wide slots?

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:25 pm

ericjon262 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:50 pm Made another sample, this one was almost spot on, except for the vertical member going to the block was still too long, I forgot to correct it when I made the other changes yesterday.

Can you tighten up the slots? Do you have enough clearance in the hole for the bolt into the oil pan to allow for variability in how the vertical pieces weld into those wide slots?

the slots pictured were for .25" vertical parts, I have revised the drawing for 10 ga slots. the hole in the pan is slightly oversized, but not ridiculous. I'll check the drawing later for actual dimensions.

Thanks!

ericjon262 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:00 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:25 pm

ericjon262 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:50 pm Made another sample, this one was almost spot on, except for the vertical member going to the block was still too long, I forgot to correct it when I made the other changes yesterday.

Can you tighten up the slots? Do you have enough clearance in the hole for the bolt into the oil pan to allow for variability in how the vertical pieces weld into those wide slots?

the slots pictured were for .25" vertical parts, I have revised the drawing for 10 ga slots. the hole in the pan is slightly oversized, but not ridiculous. I'll check the drawing later for actual dimensions.