Help me diagnose my miss(?)

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:33 am

Here's a problem I've been having. I have a miss, I guess, on my car (SC3800). It started out quite innocuously, in fact, at first I thought it was tire chatter from my car running so much better then what I'm used to due to my new intake, as it happens when I'm hard on the throttle. With recent rains, though, it got much much worse. Not tire slipping from wet pavement, but a shudder that runs through the car and shows up on the tach. I pulled the car over thinking I may have a loose spark wire from a recent engine detailing, and I wound up getting shocked when I went to check the #3 wire. I called FastFieros Lloyde, and from the brief info I gave him at the time, he suggested a bad coil pack. I bought a new Delco coil pack, did not resolve the problem.

I don't really want to throw money at it blindly, but I don't mind spending the cash to get the right parts or diagnostic. What do y'all suggest? The spark wires are pretty old, and not the original Delco, how do I test that?

YFM754 · Post by **YFM754** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:45 am

well if you got shocked that means ur prolly losing voltage through cracks in the outer coating...u might try running it at night and look for sparks in the engine compartment. If your losing voltage then u may not have enough to ignite the fuel in the cylinder and thus...a miss...but i would wait for some one more knowldgeable will come along.

Fast88Fiero · Post by **Fast88Fiero** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:57 am

I'd say it's tune up time. Replace the plug wires and the plugs. If you got shocked the plug wires are no good.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:00 am

It sounds like you've already diagnosed it a la peeing on the electric fence, but here's a quick simple way for next time...

When it's dark, start it up, and take a spray bottle and mist everything with water. Any leaks will show up as dim little blue arcs. You might even hear "zapping". Replace anything that lights up.

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:12 am

Rock on. I'm gonna put some Floyd on the headphones and go watch the lightshow. Thanks for confirming my diagnosis.

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:12 am

You got zapped by a spark plug wire and you were told to replace a coil???? :scratch:

Ok then.

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:34 pm

Hey, give the guy a break, I was standing in a parking lot on my celphone. At least he took the time to talk to me. I don't have any other of your phone numbers. So I have a spare coil pack now. No worries.

But if the plastic surrounding the electrode on the coil were cracked, wouldn't that cause an arc as well? and if that were the case, wouldn't that cause the problem I described? I think he went to that because I told him that I had detailed the engine the day before and that included the coil packs.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:09 pm

As the others said, time for plugs and wires. That sounds exactly like the problems you're having, and we all know how fast boosted vehicles run through plugs, especially when their operator likes the throttle.

Put new, and decent, plugs and wires in it and I'd say it'll be smooth as it ever was.

txf · Post by **txf** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:17 pm

Good post Whipped I was about to say the same with the misting. If a rainy day shows a miss it's usually the moisture in the air allowing the spark to jump easier. Where did you grab when it got you? If it wasn't anywhere near the coilpack then rule it out.Sparks only jump up to 2" in most cases unless everything is wet then it'll go further. If you've had this miss for quite sometime then you will need to check the plugs for fouling. If they all look good and aren't very old then give them a little wirebrushing maybe a little sandpaper and stickem back in. If they have more milage on them go ahead and swap em out. But keep a few of the better ones for spares just in case you kill the porcelin with a knock or a clumsy ratchet.

Now you say you detailed the engine? Got pics I love nice clean 3800SC's They look sharp.

Hope you get it fixed.

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:37 pm

When I got zapped I was reaching for the boot to push snug on the electrode, so it was right at the coil.

Lloyde also recommended new plugs and wires. He actually didn't tell me to replace the coil, but he did say that the 1&3 coils have atendancy to go out? and this was before I told him that it was #3 that zapped me. Anyways, Summit is sending me out a nice set of Taylor wires that should be here by Friday.

On the plug thing, I do have a 3.4 pulley to install soon, and I was told that prior to installing it, it would be prudent to go to a lower heat range on the plugs, and I was even given some NGK part numbers. My memory sucks, the only way to remember is to write it down, then I lose my paper. So, anyone have any knowledge about this?

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:47 pm

Well, this is terribly embarassing, but it just goes to show you how bad the ass dyno can be. I replaced my wires yesterday with Taylor Spiro Pro 8mm, and as I relaced the wires around the front of the engine I came to the wire closest to the drivers seat and as i reached to pull the boot away from the plug, there was no boot. No clip. In fact, the final four inches of wire insulation remaining resembled a ceramic, and there was no actual conducting metal wire in it anymore. In addition to that, the next wire over, wile still complete, was also ceramicized and cracked in half.

Apparently when the shop monkey at West Coast didn't think it important to have the wires clear the headers he just put on, so whenever the car had been going up hill, you could smell a "hot" smell. I took it for the computer getting hot, but it makes more sense that the header was cooking it. Anyway, Kevlar sleeves are gonna get ordered today for the wires.

But it has had to have been driving like shit for a while. I've been driving it this morning, and I really don't know how to put it in words without sounding like a ricer. My fucking sparkplug wires are Teh win! Going from a supercharged L3+1 to a supercharged V6 is finally giving me that "smash your ass into the seat" acceleration. I got to roll up on this last gen Civic bumble-bee in the parking lot and hit it from my 5 mph roll to leave a 15 foot double strip of Kumho on his drivers side. This shit is going to get me in trouble.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:56 pm

hehehehe :thumbleft:

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:34 pm

Gonna have to dyno it again now

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:22 pm

No kidding. Before or after the 3.4? If I wasn't a Fiero owner or I had aaron's talent for finding cheap dyno pulls I'd do both, no problem. Shit, if it was $25 like homeboy can get, it would be done and up right now.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:39 pm

How long would it take to change the pulley? You might be able to swap it quick enough liek in under an hour, then only have to pay 1 hour of dyno time?

Not sure. Or just say screw it and do both and then go back and save some money. Finding out what the plugs added if any would be for your knowledge really. But seeing after the new wires and 3.4 pulley would be good to share with everyone. Its up to you. I would be happy with either and its your money so whatever you want to do there is your choice.

Cool that the plugs. wires were bad. Easy fix there. Should gain back a smidge of power.

txf · Post by **txf** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:08 pm

Watch the papers and car mags for large carshows. then go check them out. One of them will hopefully have a mobil dyno. I know they are cheap as hell when they are at an event like that. Then just remember that they aren't as accurate as teh shop ones but close enough to be really happy. I know Nopi is just around the corner for me (October) and I hope to have my swap done. I don't care if I have to trailer it there I want the dyno sheet. Good luck on your quest for inexpensive dyno pulls. Aarons dyno sounds like a backwoods hilbilly with a homebrew Trailer axle dyno. Ok Ok JK

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:53 pm

Shaun41178(2) wrote:How long would it take to change the pulley? You might be able to swap it quick enough liek in under an hour, then only have to pay 1 hour of dyno time?

Not sure. Or just say screw it and do both and then go back and save some money. Finding out what the plugs added if any would be for your knowledge really. But seeing after the new wires and 3.4 pulley would be good to share with everyone. Its up to you. I would be happy with either and its your money so whatever you want to do there is your choice.

Cool that the plugs. wires were bad. Easy fix there. Should gain back a smidge of power.

I don't know that it's so much that my plug wires added, is that my numbers before are irrelevant. I was doing a dyno run with less then 6 full cylinders

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:13 pm

txf wrote:Aarons dyno sounds like a backwoods hilbilly with a homebrew Trailer axle dyno. Ok Ok JK

Aaron's dyno was done by a professional tuning shop with a good crew, using the most recent version of the DynoJet, programmed and certified by DynoJet officials. The cost was low because they were able to get cars in and out quickly and efficiently, we had 40+ cars show up for the dyno day, and they often use dyno days to recruit clients for them to tune/upgrade. They have sent me numerous charts of my runs upon request, usually the next day. I guess you can blame me and call me an idiot for monitoring local car clubs, and jumping in when they have dyno days, but to me that is the logical thing to do, and it helps everyone involved by lowering the current and future cost for everyone, raising the dyno shop's clientele, and raising the club's public awareness.

My sheet:

A video of my run:
http://lukez34.com/galleries/video/dyno ... ondyno.wmv

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:43 pm

jstillwell wrote:
Shaun41178(2) wrote:How long would it take to change the pulley? You might be able to swap it quick enough liek in under an hour, then only have to pay 1 hour of dyno time?

Not sure. Or just say screw it and do both and then go back and save some money. Finding out what the plugs added if any would be for your knowledge really. But seeing after the new wires and 3.4 pulley would be good to share with everyone. Its up to you. I would be happy with either and its your money so whatever you want to do there is your choice.

Cool that the plugs. wires were bad. Easy fix there. Should gain back a smidge of power.
I don't know that it's so much that my plug wires added, is that my numbers before are irrelevant. I was doing a dyno run with less then 6 full cylinders

Exactly.
If you can get before and after 3.4 pulley the same day it would be cool.. but don't sweat it.. a fast car is really all that matters in the end. The rest is just community service

jstillwell · Post by **jstillwell** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:48 pm

Hey aaron, do you think you can get about 39 other guys together in San Jose for me so we can negotiate one of those group rates? How's next Thursday work?