Real Fiero Tech

I put my car on the alignment rack at Lang Racing Development in Irvine today. With the slop from my worn rod ends, total toe change is about 0.25 degrees per side. I can feel this when transitioning from on-throttle to engine-braking -- the thrust angle changes slightly because the play is slightly different on each side. It's only really noticeable on the freeway, but I assume it would also be quite noticeable at high speeds on the track. I'll be replacing the rod ends before I take it to the track. Need to address front-end aero as well..

Do NOT cheap out on rod ends. It is not worth saving 25% just to replace them twice as often or more.

By the way, this thread now has over 11,000 views!

Have I been bad? One year of track days and I still never got around to replacing those "worn out" rod ends. I guess the slop isn't so bad in the real world with my current alignment settings.

I do have some new QA1 XM rod ends waiting to go on, but I never made the switch because I have to fab new adapter sleeves. The HM-T rod ends are wider than the ones from Outpace...

Moving on to upper control arms for now..

I thought the thickness of rod ends was pretty much standardized based on the hole/shank diameter, with the possible exception of high misalignment versions which could be thicker, but are not needed for this application.

Series8217 wrote:Have I been bad? One year of track days and I still never got around to replacing those "worn out" rod ends. I guess the slop isn't so bad in the real world with my current alignment settings.

When you're on track, the loads are always one way or the other, so the slop is always on the other side of the load. It's only cruising down the 101 that the loads on the suspension are so low that the slop becomes noticeable.

The Dark Side of Will wrote:

Series8217 wrote:Have I been bad? One year of track days and I still never got around to replacing those "worn out" rod ends. I guess the slop isn't so bad in the real world with my current alignment settings.

When you're on track, the loads are always one way or the other, so the slop is always on the other side of the load. It's only cruising down the 101 that the loads on the suspension are so low that the slop becomes noticeable.

I do drive the car 120 miles each way to the track on the highway. Just haven't really noticed it anymore with my current alignment settings and setup.

I have wanted to do this mod to my car but haven't been able to pull the trigger as I feel I need to do more research. Not only that, but I am to the point now where I have the money to just have someone provide the parts for me and I just bolt on instead of sourcing my own parts

I've been looking for a way to use these* in the '88 rear links:



*Actually, these parts are too long to fit the '88 cradle bushing locations. The stock bushings are about 1 5/8" long, while these are 48mm (1.889") long, BUT there are many similar parts on the market, so this discussion is still relevant.

EDIT: For example, Lemforder part #10011-01, used on Alfa Romeos could work:



I've found what are called "solid rod ends"--basically just heavy eye bolts with machined bores.
To fit the ball joints above, they need to have a 40mm (~1.57") bore. Nothing that big is on the market.
However, I would be fine with the wall thickness that would result from boring such a hole in a 2" diameter housing. There ARE a number of those products on the market. They would need to be bored in order to fit the Lemforder part, but that's a single machining operation.



The shanks on these parts are typically quite a bit longer than on spherical rod ends... 6" from bore center to the end of the shank is the minimum I've found for one with the required 2" housing diameter. That means that they could be trimmed and threaded, OR that a long male and a long female could be used together--say for the fixed length link--which would be more difficult to adjust... making things more obvious for alignment technicians working on your car.

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/82395195

http://products.kenforginginc.com/item/ ... 16|3001112

304 Stainless! (12" long, though)
http://products.kenforginginc.com/item/ ... ank/10j-ss?

https://www.jergensinc.com/site/account ... m_cd=35317

Pay Dirt?

Lemforder 14429:

http://www.findpart.org/part/aud-443505153b/

From late '80's Audi rear toe links.
Still looking for dimensions.

On further research, this appears to be a BUSHING, even though the profile of the rubber is strongly suggestive of the boots on a ball joint.

Shaun41178(2) wrote:I have wanted to do this mod to my car but haven't been able to pull the trigger as I feel I need to do more research. Not only that, but I am to the point now where I have the money to just have someone provide the parts for me and I just bolt on instead of sourcing my own parts

Me also! Anyone want to supply me with a kit?

WCF sells a kit.

http://www.westcoastfiero.com/suspension/parts.php

"Rear Tubular Links - 88 Only"

I saw that. I'm not a big west coast fiero fan...

Fieroguru also markets a kit, but he's relocating and there will probably be a delay of many months to get the parts. http://fieroguruperformance.com/?page_id=295

I did not know he sold them. I have his lateral link relocation kit and 13" rotors. I'll have to ask him for a set of links when he has time. My car is in storage for winter anyway.

Fast88Fiero wrote:

Shaun41178(2) wrote:I have wanted to do this mod to my car but haven't been able to pull the trigger as I feel I need to do more research. Not only that, but I am to the point now where I have the money to just have someone provide the parts for me and I just bolt on instead of sourcing my own parts

Me also! Anyone want to supply me with a kit?

I'm looking through the ZF catalogs to see if there's a through-bolt ball joint which could be used in the Fiero application.
There are also pretty high end seals available for metric rod ends... but using those would make it harder to get pre-tapped tubes for ready made links.

A word about rod ends and seals:

If you have a rod end with this body style:



and you install Pro-Werks/ChassisShop seals on it, they look like this:



However, if you have a rod end with this body style:



and you install seals on it, they look like this:



When the seals are squashed flat like this, they're much more likely to split and tear at the edges, as well as become debonded from the steel washer.
Incompatibility between rod end body styles the seals are used on and the style they were designed for is probably a strong contributing factor for the short life many of us using them have seen.