Yeah, but with the car running right now spark is fine . I'll pull a plug and check it when the car doesn't start again.
I think the ignition module is warped from the PO bolting it down on only one side, and when it heats up it it just bends the coil housing. As far as I can tell the coil hasn't been heating up to cause the damage. I've felt it after a run and its not hot, and the ink I wrote the cylinder numbers on with is still there.
What is the usual mode of failure for the ignition module?
Aaron wrote:Could be, I'm not sure. I just know it used to help it start after it died. In fact, I've found a lot of times flooring a car helps it start. Helps my Fiero too. Maybe like a choke action I don't know.
This is a <another> lie. Like someone else said, the fuel injectors are shut down when you floor the pedal and the motor isn't running.
Do you want to see a fucking video? This is how I started my Fiero every day--and it helps tremendously. Ask Doug, the car is sometimes really hard to start, and the coldass weather doesn't help. So I'd hold it wide open, and as soon as it'd start, I'd let off but immediately rev it a few times.
Steven, the 91-93 injectors were my problem. Sure the car had other problems, but the early injectors were doing this. You'd be amazed the amount of 3.4s that do this, I'd say easily 40% of the ones on the message boards. But everyone just lives with it because they are too lazy to buy a used set of $50 injectors. Furthermore, they all do it at different rates. My white car did it extremely frequently, sometimes so much as half the time, other days it ran perfect. My red Z34 maybe does it once a week or so. The automatic cars do it much less than the sticks.
For anyone living in a cold climate, opening the TB while cranking usually helps if you have cranked your car for a few seconds with it not starting. The engine partially floods and opening the TB helps it start.
Aaron, check your cold start injector. If its leaking you might have trouble starting without opening the tb. You would be too rich.
It's definitely a wiring problem to the injectors. When the starter is cranking the motor the battery voltage drops, and at the injectors is no longer enough to open them. Thats why it runs fine once it starts, and when its cold it starts because the resistance is low enough in the starter and wiring. I have now got it to start consistently on starter fluid.. every time it doesnt want to start I spray some in and it fires right up.
I noticed my C203 is getting warm, and I've got lots of circuits getting power through there.. so I'm going to replace it with a new one or some other 14 pin connector that's more reliable. Any ideas on other cars to get one from? It needs to support 16 gauge wire. I could get another C203 from the yard but they're all in bad shape around here.. I was hoping I could get something new.
I still believe that the injectors could use replacing. I doubt they are the reason the car won't start the majority of the time, usually the car starts fine so long as it didn't just die. The car not starting is not a side effect of the older injectors. But as for the condition of the car dying in the first place, I think that is the injectors. So usually after it dies the car will start, reluctantly, but it will start, via the starter. Your car will not start via the starter.
So I would say do fix the wiring as you said, but also, next time you are at the yard, grab some 1994-1997 injectors. They will plug right in and work, and will help the car idle a lot better. In addition, they are much quieter. If you buy new injectors from a parts store, even 91-93, they will also have been updated by now (Redesigned so they don't phantom stall).
As for the wiring, there is a guy on Ebay selling a brand new injector harness for the 3.4. I believe it is $25, you may want to look into that, though I'm not sure if it is exactly what you need.
Series8217 wrote:
I noticed my C203 is getting warm, and I've got lots of circuits getting power through there.. so I'm going to replace it with a new one or some other 14 pin connector that's more reliable. Any ideas on other cars to get one from? It needs to support 16 gauge wire. I could get another C203 from the yard but they're all in bad shape around here.. I was hoping I could get something new.
Yeah, that's bad. Start splitting the power up. You have an extra injector fuse... use it. It wouldn't hurt to use some contact cleaner on the pins to make sure they're clean. Make sure they're dry before plugging them back in.
List some of the things going through C203 and I could probably help you more... Upgraded fuel pump? Where is the ECM getting it's power from?
Series8217 wrote:
I noticed my C203 is getting warm, and I've got lots of circuits getting power through there.. so I'm going to replace it with a new one or some other 14 pin connector that's more reliable. Any ideas on other cars to get one from? It needs to support 16 gauge wire. I could get another C203 from the yard but they're all in bad shape around here.. I was hoping I could get something new.
Yeah, that's bad. Start splitting the power up. You have an extra injector fuse... use it. It wouldn't hurt to use some contact cleaner on the pins to make sure they're clean. Make sure they're dry before plugging them back in.
List some of the things going through C203 and I could probably help you more... Upgraded fuel pump? Where is the ECM getting it's power from?
Alright, I'll split it through the C203 or rather use both fuses.. if I can. I think I may be missing the body side wiring for the other injector fuse since I started with a 4cyl. I know its not on the engine side C203 I have.
Everything else on the C203 is wired exactly as it was in the Fiero, so the Fuel pump power, ECM power, etc is going through it. Fuel pump is a Lumina Z34 pump, which is the same as the 88 Fiero GT pump..
Checked injector resistance. 12.9 ohms on each... and yet getting like 4 ohms for them all in parallel!! So I found a bad wire (which I have never soldered on or spliced, mind you) that had 2 or 3 ohms of resistance. Replaced that and got the proper reading (2.15 ohms exactly). Sooooo... my friend unplugs an injector so we can see how many volts are going across the injectors while cranking and not starting.. and then the car started. WTF? So we turn it off, try to start it again and no go. We decided to test it further.. unplug two injectors. Starts up. Turn off, try again. Starts. Start it, plug the injectors back in, go for a drive, come back, turn it off... try to start and it wont. Unplug two injectors (any two, we tried various combinations) and it starts right up.
I'm going to the junkyard this week to get a new injector harness and C203. I'm going to put a new injector harness on and rewire the C203 to use both injector fuse banks if I have the body side wiring for it. There must be resistance somewhere else in the circuit, right? By taking an injector or two out the resistance of the injector set goes up (since they're in parallel) and thus more of the current goes to the injectors than the other source of resistance, right?
I think you've found your problem. Your injectors are drawing too much current for the wiring to supply (during cranking only).
IIRC the ECM power should be coming from the power distribution block on top of the battery area. I believe it goes through a fusible link. Drawing a billion amps through the C203 is bad.
You're right, Ryan, I need to redo the ECM power. The Lumina had the ECM powered off the same fuse as the fuel pump, but had larger gauge wire and no crappy C203 in between. I had thought the Fiero was the same way, apparently I was wrong.
Today I added the second injector fuse pin to my C203 and wired that into the injector power as well, so the two fuses are feeding the injectors. It spreads the current through the C203. The car fired right up and I drove it around for awhile to make sure it wasn't going to die. I can't get it to stall anymore, when the fan kicks on the RPMs only dip 50 or 100 (it used to stall the motor or at least drop it down to 500 rpm briefly), and the throttle response and idle quality is much better.
I also monitored the fuel trim with my scanner while I was having the starting problems and found that the BLMs and Integrator were close to being maxed out. I guess a clogged fuel filter was NOT my problem last time. It was just that the wiring "fixed" itself temporarily when I had replaced the filter. Now that I fixed the wiring the BLMs and Integrator stay close to 128.
. I'll pull a plug and check it when the car doesn't start again.
