Odds of both relays being bad?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:26 pm

Starting a new thread--I now have bigger fish to fry..

phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=46945#46945

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:16 pm

Mach10 wrote: I pick up the rear with a shop-crane tied to both strut towers.

Eventually I'll make a proper brace, but for now the cosmetic damage of a little dimple in the strut bolt hole from the chain hook is negligeable.

Pull back the carpet, and you can loop a chain through the crossmember.

MNFatz · Post by **MNFatz** » Sun May 14, 2006 11:37 pm

My workaround in case you haven't fixed it yet.

I cut the green/white stripe wire going into the relay and ran it to the +12v pink coil wire.

Oil pressure switch bypassed, save yourself $40.00.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:26 pm

Update: I have the mechanical aspect of the swap mostly completed, and it is time to fry this fishy.

I connected a large wire from the cigg lighter power to G ALDL (Fuel Pump), and the fuel pump primed and pressurized the system (I verified that, and got a faceful of gas to prove it).

So this leaves my options to either a bad relay, bad oil pressure thingy, or a fault in wiring somewhere. I'm going to go pull the relay right now and test that using the method above. I am also going to jump the pins on the Oil Pressure Sending unit to see what that does (Should turn on the fuel pump).

Thanks so much guys, this kinda stuff is my weakest link, and you all, especially Steven, have been beyond helpful.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:44 pm

I am not using my A/C relay, and since the numbers were the same, I put the fuel pump connector into the A/C relay, thinking if the FP relay was bad the AC one would still work. Nothing. So that leaves me with the Oil Pressure thingy, or wiring.

By the way, my factory oil pressure gauge is reading ~60 when cranking.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:54 pm

Ok, my relays don't look like the ones posted on the other page, maybe becuase mine is an 88?

Here is what mine look like:

There are so identifying numbers next to the pins, but the numbers on the relay box are:
10040035
8117

I'm thinking they are good and my problem is elseware...But just in case, which pins do I use to test these relays?

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:09 pm

I think that's actually a socket that's plug into the relay. I think you can pull the relay out of the plastic case its in and then pull off that socket, and then the relay should look the same. I could be wrong.

The Dark Side of Will · Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:15 pm

GM changed relay styles a couple of times in the '80's. The earlier ones were Bosch. I don't know who makes the ones Aaron has, but they have a small symbol on top:

Code: Select all

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Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:18 pm

Alright well I'm not even going to check them, there's no way both are bad, and they look semi-new anyways. Plus the car has less miles than my black car, and it hasn't had any issues with them.

Question: Now the fuel pump is on whenever there is oil pressure if I understand this right, but does the ignition do the same thing with spark? If so, and if the oil pressure sending unit is bad, that could be the reason I'm not getting spark or fuel.

One more option, what if the ECU isn't even turning on? That'd explain nothing working. Plus, I ran the fuel pump for a few seconds, then cranked the car over for a few seconds. Afterwards, I pulled a spark plug. It was bone dry and did not smell of gas at all. So the injectors aren't firing either...

Thoughts?

The Dark Side of Will · Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:25 pm

Does the SES light come on when you turn the key? Can you get it to flash codes at you? Do you have access to a scan tool?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:28 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Does the SES light come on when you turn the key? Can you get it to flash codes at you? Do you have access to a scan tool?

I forget if it comes on or not. I tried to get it to run through the SES codes by grounding the diagnostic ALDL pin, and it did nothing. Steven and I agree that the ECU is either dead, or not getting any power.

The ECU is a remanufactured unit, and I don't exactly trust it so I am going to swap it with one from a Z34 that I know works tomorrow if I can. I'm also going to check all the plug ins to the ECU.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:46 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Does the SES light come on when you turn the key? Can you get it to flash codes at you? Do you have access to a scan tool?

The SES never comes on at any time from turning the key on to cranking.

The ECU is getting power, a steady 12.4ish volts. But it isn't doing anything with that power. I'll have a spare ECU to play with in a couple hours that I know is good, and a car to test mine on.

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:04 pm

Have you verified the continuity of the SES light circuit?
Apply +12 to the DK GRN/WHT wire at the FP relay. The fuel pump should turn on.

If you verify both of those systems are fine, then you can say that the ECM is the problem.

Does the fuel pump start after you've cranked long enough to bring up oil pressure? If that doesn't happen, then you ALSO have something wrong in your oil pressure switch or wiring.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:12 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Have you verified the continuity of the SES light circuit?

Yes I have.

Apply +12 to the DK GRN/WHT wire at the FP relay. The fuel pump should turn on.

If you verify both of those systems are fine, then you can say that the ECM is the problem.

I got the FP to prime and turn on, and rpessurize the rail, by applying 12v to G pin on the ALDL.

Does the fuel pump start after you've cranked long enough to bring up oil pressure? If that doesn't happen, then you ALSO have something wrong in your oil pressure switch or wiring.

No it does not, but the oil pressure gauge is reading about 60psi while cranking.

According to Steven, ECM pin B10 carries voltage to the ECM when the car is on, that is how the ECM knows it's on. Well I checked B10 and get no voltage at all. So I am going to go check that wire, and check its fuse.

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:20 pm

Aaron wrote:I got the FP to prime and turn on, and rpessurize the rail, by applying 12v to G pin on the ALDL.

That energizes the fuel pump directly and doesn't test the relay and wiring. It's meant to be a relay bypass to keep driving the car in the event of a failed relay.

Aaron wrote:No it does not, but the oil pressure gauge is reading about 60psi while cranking.

Then you've got some more wiring to figure out...

Aaron wrote:According to Steven, ECM pin B10 carries voltage to the ECM when the car is on, that is how the ECM knows it's on. Well I checked B10 and get no voltage at all. So I am going to go check that wire, and check its fuse.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:56 pm

Ok I put my ECU in the Lumina Z34, with the Z34's chip, and wouldn't you know it started right up and ran normal. Just my luck. So my ECU is good.

Next I'm going to try my ECU and the Z34 ECU, both with the Z34 chip, and see if that does anything. Then I'm going to check the Z34's B10 to make sure it has 12v with key 'on,' and if so, figure out why mine doesn't.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:56 am

Ok, got it figured out with Steven's help, and we got it to run :thumbleft:

Turns out the wiring to the fuel pump relay is wrong. I was also missing the 12v feed to the DIS moduel, which is a fused link wire from the C500. So I bypassed the realy via the ALDL, got the fuel pump to work, and half-assedly ran a wire from right in front of the fusible link to the DIS. AND IT RAN!!! Sounded good, no pics or vids, but Steven heard it.

Now to fix everything, and fix it right.

By the way, I tried it again, and now I can't get the fuel pump to run anymore. So either it has full pressure and stopped, which I doubt because I was cranking, or I burned out the ALDL wire from too much continuous use. Oh well, I'm fixing the relay tomorrow anyways.

Thanks for all the help.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:57 am

You owe me big time. If I bomb my finals I'm sending you the bill.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:04 am

Series8217 wrote:You owe me big time. If I bomb my finals I'm sending you the bill.

Our contract IS NOT finished yet, if I went down right now and turned the key, it would not start...lol

Thanks again dude, and you'll be paid when the contract closes :thumbleft:

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:47 am

Aaron wrote:Ok, got it figured out with Steven's help, and we got it to run :thumbleft:

Awesome.

Aaron wrote:Turns out the wiring to the fuel pump relay is wrong.

Hmm... Could have sworn I suggested checking that...

Aaron wrote:I was also missing the 12v feed to the DIS moduel, which is a fused link wire from the C500.

You can just get rid of the fusible link. The 4 cylinder DIS Fieros don't have it. As long as the wire feeding the DIS is 16ga or bigger, you ought to be fine. You should be able to get new C500 pins from CarQuest or Napa. i wouldn't expect AutoZone or Advance to carry them. Just cut the fusible link out and crimp the pin on the new end of the wire and reinsert into the C500 connector.

Aaron wrote:Now to fix everything, and fix it right.

Aaron wrote:or I burned out the ALDL wire from too much continuous use. Oh well, I'm fixing the relay tomorrow anyways.

I'm confused. Fixing it right would involve NOT saying "oh well" about the ALDL circuit not working...