Summer vacation starts with Getrag input shaft seal leak

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:39 am

An hour and 20 minutes out of LA, travelling at about 70mph, I punched the gas in 5th gear to pass some vehicles... and just got revs. "WTF?" Dropped it to fourth. Revvs. Clutch slippage galore. Left it in 4th and babied it for an hour or so making phone calls to try to find a friend with a tow dolly... or at least someone who could pick me up. I'd have to cross mountains to get all the way home and I knew I wouldn't make it with a clutch slipping that bad.
I called my friend who was on her way up to SF about two hours ahead of me and she turned around to pick me up so I could at least be home even without the car...
Engine was also running 20 or 30 degrees hotter than usual... so after about 30 minutes I decided to pull of the road. First thing I noticed was oil stains all over the rear decklid, bumper, and window. Engine bay was equally spotted. I found a puddle of it that got blown back on the cradle and the sniff test confirmed that its transmission fluid. It seems my input shaft seal decided to spring a leak (luckily AFTER I was in traffic for 2 hours and AFTER the grapevine.. thank goodness). Poured transmission fluid allll over the clutch and made it slip like mad. This happened while just travelling at constant low load on the freeway. Boggle.
Anyway, obviously I have to pull the thing apart and split the case to replace that input shaft seal. What I want to know is... what's the part # for the seal? Where can I get it? How do I replace it? If I clean off my clutch disk with brake cleaner will it work again? (Spec Stage 2, Kevlar).
My car is currently stranded 3 hours from home. I'm going to try to find a dolly tomorrow and pick it up.

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:56 am

I've never actually done it, but in theory, you do NOT have to split the case to change the input shaft seal.

If you can come up with a large stud remover or shaft collar to use to get a grip on the throw out bearing sleeve, you *should* be able to pull the input shaft bearing & seal out of the trans while it's still together. Installing the new one is then cake because it just presses back in.

Not sure on the clutch, but I'm probably going to have to go through the same thing with my Centerfarce as it's gotten some oil on it while it sat waiting to go back into the car.

I think the input shaft bearing & seal P/N is 14092066. I'd be surprised if you can still get one from GM.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:47 am

Not sure about the clutch, but if it was me, I would just replace it. Once oil gets on it, I wouldn't want to reuse it. Oil soaks down into the pads and will slip as deep as the oil goes. You would just have to pull it all back apart again.

Why take the chance. I would just get a new one. I know it sucks but I would rather do that while its all apart and not have to worry about it slipping later on down the road or even right away and have to pull it all back apart again.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:24 pm

this is a very odd failure.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:42 pm

Shaun41178(2) wrote:Not sure about the clutch, but if it was me, I would just replace it. Once oil gets on it, I wouldn't want to reuse it. Oil soaks down into the pads and will slip as deep as the oil goes. You would just have to pull it all back apart again.

Why take the chance.

Because Westfest is in two weeks and Spec is slow to ship. It would be a temporary solution, as I am absolutely going to replace it with a Spec 3 by the end of summer due to other plans *coughforcedinductioncough* but I need to be able to drive it in the meantime.

So if the clutch material is fucked... My pressure plate and flywheel should be fine, right? Hopefully I can just order just a disc from Spec so its cheaper.

The Dark Side of Will wrote: I think the input shaft bearing & seal P/N is 14092066. I'd be surprised if you can still get one from GM.

Thanks. GMPD lists it as in stock, so I should be able to get one from the local dealer as well. $35 list price, $33.61 shipped from GMPD. I'll have to see how much my dealer wants.

Another thing I thought of is that it could be the detent housing cover, which woudl be nice since I wouldn't have to buy anything to fix it. Poked a hole in it to remove it, but did a pretty good job of sealing it back up with high temp silicone... but maybe it got loose or something. That thing probably wouldn't leak as much oil or tend to get any on the clutch disc though.

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:26 pm

The seal is held in place on the portion of the throw out bearing collar that sits inside the case, and the only way to remove the throwout collar is to split the case and remove the 3 bolts holding it in. I know you dont want to hear this but, YES, the tranny has to be split.

Chris has the parts list for ALL bearings, races, and seals requires for the Getrag. When I was down there I was rebuilding those damn things like crazy, at least 1 every month.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:37 pm

If you want that seal fast, do NOT go to GMPD. Just because it says "in stock" doesn't mean it is. I've had to wait months for parts that were supposed to ship days after the order. It wasn't a big deal for me though.

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:47 pm

Wish I coulda been more help, Steven. I work through Monday, but I should have most of next week off if you need any help. Let me know.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:03 pm

Boscolingus wrote:The seal is held in place on the portion of the throw out bearing collar that sits inside the case, and the only way to remove the throwout collar is to split the case and remove the 3 bolts holding it in.

You must be thinking of another transmission. There are no bolts holding it in. I have a split open Getrag sitting in my garage.

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:07 pm

dammit your right, I had Mike Morris' transmission ( 4 spd Muncie w/ 3:32 FD ) going through my head...If your gonna be local near the shop on Mon and Tues, I'll help you rip into that bad boy.

And Chris should still have a pile of Getrag parts there if memory serves, for worst case scenario

The Dark Side of Will · Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:48 am

Boscolingus wrote:The seal is held in place on the portion of the throw out bearing collar that sits inside the case, and the only way to remove the throwout collar is to split the case and remove the 3 bolts holding it in. I know you dont want to hear this but, YES, the tranny has to be split.

Chris has the parts list for ALL bearings, races, and seals requires for the Getrag. When I was down there I was rebuilding those damn things like crazy, at least 1 every month.

As Steven said, that three bolt flange is for the 4 speed. The 282 input shaft bearing/seal is purely a press fit.

I'm curious about where you go your synchros. I've been told of cheap rebuild kits from various online rebuilding houses, but I'm skeptical until I have parts in my hands and I haven't followed through with any of those houses far enough to have parts in my hands...

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:26 am

Just got back to NorCal with my car. Ended up borrowing a flatbed trailer from my neighbor and my friend's dad drove with us down to Lost Hills to pick up the car. Took ~6 hours of driving..... plus 3 hours trying to get the trailer lights to work. Argh!

I'll hopefully have time to start tearing it apart on Monday or Tuesday. It's 4:30 AM and I need some sleep.

Boscolingus wrote:If your gonna be local near the shop on Mon and Tues, I'll help you rip into that bad boy.

I won't be back in SoCal until August, besides a short excursion down there next weekend to pick up a wiring harness from the shop and maybe my Getrag shim selector tool if I end up needing to replace more than an input shaft seal. Thanks for the offer though.

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:45 pm

Damn, I was hoping you sent me that pic after you got home. That sucks man, glad you got it home.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:50 pm

Yeah that was around 10:30 in Lost Hills

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:34 am

Turned out to not be the input shaft seal. Here's the culprit:

Detent housing cover had worked its way loose. I guess I'll have to reinstall it with some sort of adhesive.. I don't want to make it too hard to remove in the future though.

The clutch turned BLACK. I'm not going to make any attempt to save it. The pressure plate is also burnt up and browned. Flywheel is the same.

I'm going to see about getting the flywheel turned, but I'm going to need a new clutch and PP for sure. I will probably go with the Spec Stage 3. Anyone have experience driving a car with it? I'm mainly concerned about how well it drives in traffic. I'll get the Stage 2+ if the conensus is that the Stage 3 is unbearable in heavy traffic.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:08 am

Interesting. I was thinking it was a little strange for the input bearing to be pouring out fluid like that. I've never seen that cap work loose. Mine have always been quite tight. I remember seeing those available for sale someplace... You might call outfits that have 282 rebuild kits and see if one of them can get you a new one.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:54 am

Series8217 wrote:I don't want to make it too hard to remove in the future though.

Why? Seems like that was your problem in the first place. :la:

Hammer it in and RTV it. Who cares if you have to drill it and remove it with a slide hammer?

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:40 pm

Eh, I guess you're right.. even with silicone around the edge I could probably still get it out with a slide hammer.
I'll do that then.

Looks like my front seal on the engine is also leaking. The harmonic balancer was sorta scored when I installed it, so I'll just sleeve it... I've got a sleeve around here somewhere....

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Interesting. I was thinking it was a little strange for the input bearing to be pouring out fluid like that. I've never seen that cap work loose. Mine have always been quite tight. I remember seeing those available for sale someplace... You might call outfits that have 282 rebuild kits and see if one of them can get you a new one.

Yeah, mine fit pretty tight so I don' tknow how it came loose. The only thing I can think of is that my motor running 20 or 30 degrees hotter than usual up over the grapevine made the the transmission case expand enough that the cover could vibrate loose.
Otherwise there's something funky going on with the shift rods and one bumped it? Could the synchros be worn enough that the shift rods can move too far?

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:06 pm

No, the blocker rings aren't what limit shift rail movement.
Is your trans vent line blocked? If the transmission heated from ambient to 150-170 degrees it would probably develop enough internal pressure to pop that cover out... if the seals didn't let it out first.

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:15 pm

Glad it's an easy(ish) fix. Sucks about your clutch, tho.