no start/stalling problem

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:02 am

I have had no issues with the car like this before, and then it happened all of a sudden. I went to fuel up at a shell station (I never go to shell $$$) anyways, I had the Gas cap under the handle on the nozzle so I could clean the windsheild while filling. The auto stop did not work and the gas tank overfilled and spilled onto the ground a little before I could shut it off.

I let the clerk know so they could get some speedy dry, and then I left. No problems with the car. I went ~16 miles so the tank was proabably 3/4 Gal lower than overful, then I parked it.

I went out later (car was cold) and tried to start it and it just cranked and cranked, and cranked. I hopped out, hit the schrader valve and got fuel pressure (dosent seem to be as presurized as I remember, but I dont have my fuel pressure gauge with me). Anyways, I hit the fuel schrader valve, fuel came out, I hopped back in the car and it started up. I backed out of the spot, and it stalled and wouldnt restart.

I pushed it back into the parking spot, and checked for spark with a spare plug. Spark is there, Could be stronger though. Might be a bad spare plug as well. Its hard to see spark in the daylight from inside the cab.

Anyways, after checking for spark it started up again. I drove down to another section of the parking lot so I could work on it if necessary, and no issues recurred. I sat there revving it and it had no problem holding 3500rpm.

3 days later (today) I am comiong to work in the morning. The car is cold, and Im about 1/4 mi into the trip (already at work at that point, I live real close). Going up a slight hill turning to the left it stalls. It took some cranking but it restarted. I drove in to work and as I parked on a level surface I sat for a few seconds and it stalled.

20 minutes later I started it back up (started easily) and headed up a very slight incline. the car lost power for a split second, and then continued on like no problems. I did a 30 run at 6500 RPM and it has no problem holding the revs while pushing the car.

Please help me, this baffles me.

2.8 v6

lucky · Post by **lucky** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:20 pm

if you weren't having problems before you overfilled, you probably saturated your charcoal canister with fluid. Remove it and take off the bottom cover, if it's full of liquid gas it needs to be replaced.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:28 pm

why does the charcoal canister need to be replaced if its full of gas, the gas will evaporate eventually. And how would that affect the car to the point of stalling.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:24 pm

Got any codes?

p8ntman442 wrote:why does the charcoal canister need to be replaced if its full of gas, the gas will evaporate eventually. And how would that affect the car to the point of stalling.

I never really understood that either, but my understanding is the gas bonds with the activated charcoal. In normal operation, it only "holds" the gas vapor until regular air displaces it.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:15 pm

No codes. But the 7170 is stoooopid.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:10 am

p8ntman442 wrote: 3 days later (today) I am comiong to work in the morning. The car is cold, and Im about 1/4 mi into the trip (already at work at that point, I live real close). Going up a slight hill turning to the left it stalls. It took some cranking but it restarted.

Exact same spot, exact same situation. It cranked and cranked and cranked, and nothing. Now Im sitting at a light with a directional green arrow for me to turn, people behind me are pissed, I had to get out and apologize. I got back in ~30 seconds of no cranking the car, and Then tried to restart it. It fired right up, and idled while I waited for the light to turn green again.

Im thinking that the car is being flooded, and waiting is the only fix. (or doing flood clear mode). A new charcoal canister is $60 from autozone. Ouch.

Has anyone ever disected a charcoal canister before? Does anyone know when the purge valve is activated electronically?

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:22 am

the fieros purge valve is not electronic though if i remember right it gets vacuum when the egr opens.

i rigged up mine to open the valve anytime there is vacuum. it dumps the fumes into the intake by the cone filter.

leaking cold start injector? or sticking cold start switch? thats the only thing i can think of that would put enough fuel in to flood it.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:48 am

No cold start injector.

Not electronic like I thought. Its vacume operated only, so I removed the vacume line. Before I did that however, I was driving at about 3500RPM constant and it stuttered enough to drop 2K rpm and then ran stron again. It feels so much like a spark problem, if it werent for the fact that it started after the overfuel, and can be restarted by going into clear flood mode (pedal all the way down while cranking) I would be chasing the electrical end of it.

Do you guys believe the charcoal canister can cause such a stumble, and would the EGR be operating it at 3500rpm? If so, why dosent it do it all the time?

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:06 pm

How full is your tank right now?

Is it possible the vent line became plugged in the fill-up and is basically strangling your engine after running for so many miles?

Maybe try driving it with the fuel cap just a little loose (no clicks)?

lucky · Post by **lucky** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:25 pm

purge valve is opened at 2" vacuum if I remember correctly. if your canister is flooded, then when the purge valve opens it would suck liquid through a line into the manifold that's supposed to suck vapor, theoretically this could cause a flooding issue.

i've got a spare canister if you don't wanna spend the 60 at the zone.
i'll pm ya my cell# if you want it.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:39 am

I disconnected my canister to solve the problem. No stall this morning. I will report back if it re-occurs. In the long run I will get the canister new from the fiero store for $45. Its cheap enough.

Incidentally, I did new plugs and 02 sensor yeasterday as well, trying to fix my lean condition. That may have had a bearing on the no stalling.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:25 pm

well today the ignition module shit the bed. Looks like my stumble and possibly the stalling was being caused by a failing ignition module. Went out to start the car, it started and immediatly died, never to restart. Quick check of the tach, and no movement meant I needed to replace the ignition module.

Found out the hard way that my spare module did not work. Why does my car always break down when its raining.

Anyways, The charcoal canister may not have been the culprit, so I didnt want anyone to be mislead. I think my lack of symptoms afterwards led me to a premature conclusion. I should ahve gone with my gut on this and looked at the spark system.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:06 am

the new module shit itself 15 mins into its life. Left me stranded at an intersection.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:29 am

Never buy the lowest priced part.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:13 am

its what they had in stock.

Again, another $40 autozone module (just replaced) this is the second autozone one. Almost got me home. Shit the bed in less than 5 minutes. The car rolled the rest of the way.

going to maine tonight, so i wont be updating this until monday night.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:53 pm

AC Delco units are available for about $65 and will last 100K miles.

You are using heat sink compound between the module and the dizzy, right?

5 miles is pretty short, even for a bottom shelf ignition module.

lucky · Post by **lucky** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:33 pm

mallory #812 is about $50 through summitt, mallory only lists it for the 4.3, but i've been running one for 6 months without any issues.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:52 pm

Autozone Duralast modules # 3 and 4 did not even fire the car. I got paranoid and started thinking my fuel pump was bad, but alas, it still pumps fine, and the tach does not move while cranking.

Autozone is the only local place open today (sunday) so Im gonna grab a GP sorensen from NAPA tomorrow, and order a GM one as well. Autozone better damn well give me my $80 back, and not say its replacement only.

I will check the GM troubleshooting tree tonight and check the coil and pickup coil resistances. When it does start, it runs though, so I cant believe its the coil/pickup coil.

Will, I am using enough heatsink compound to create a good thin bond between the dizzy and the module. These arnt even getting hot enough to cook without a heat sink.

lucky · Post by **lucky** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:49 pm

We (Advance) opened stores in coventry and west warwick recently, open on sunday from 9-9.

derangedsheep · Post by **derangedsheep** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:18 am

You may have done it already, I don't feel like reading the rest of the thread. But did you try unplugging the tach filter? I know it won't show a tach reading when cranking when it's bad and if it is bad, it won't start. I'm not sure if it would cause an intermittent problem like you have tho. Just a thought because mine went bad on me before.

Real Fiero Tech

no start/stalling problem

no start/stalling problem

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