M112 Supercharged 3800

Grim_Sage · Post by **Grim_Sage** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:07 pm

Hey... I'm just curious if any of you have any experience with an M112 Supercharger for a 3800 V6. I'm only interested in this supercharger upgrade... not switching to turbo. Any info you have to offer would be appreciated.

Thanks :thumbleft:

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:39 pm

Is this Nebiro?

Grim_Sage · Post by **Grim_Sage** » Wed May 18, 2005 11:40 am

Indeed.

Do any of you have any experience with this SC?
Thanks

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Wed May 18, 2005 12:03 pm

you question is too general the answers to it are basicly yes and no - but yes varies from "yes a little" to "motherfucker I designed that beotch"

Grim_Sage · Post by **Grim_Sage** » Wed May 18, 2005 1:01 pm

Ok, letâ€™s narrow it down.

Has anyone here ever installed the M112 Supercharger for the 3800 in a fiero or other car? If you have what is your opinion of the unit? What type of gains did you see? Are there any downsides?

To anyone who hasn't installed one of these units; what is your opinion of the product? What type of gains could I expect with just the M112 and full sized IC (on a 2000 3800sc, 5spd, CAI, Headers, Custom exhaust, OBD2)

"This kit will replace the factory third generation M90 supercharger on L67 engines with a unit 24% larger than stock and much more efficient. Dyno tests have shown a 58 WHP improvement switching from a highly modified M90 to our MP112 supercharger (both with 2.70 pulleys, no other changes whatsoever). This new fifth generation blower combines S-porting technology and the rotors feature a new abradable* coating, which actually 'wears in' - increasing volumetric efficiency to 99%! This supercharger can provide 20 psi (or more) of boost to 3800 Series II engines. "

My M90 isn't even modified and they compare a highly modded M90 to the MP112 and show 58whp gain. (Biggest increase coming from the change of a 3.4 to 2.70 pulley)

Would it be safe to assume that adding this SC and a full sized IC could easily get me 90-100 crank hp if not whp?

I just want some feedback, good or bad. Thanks

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Wed May 18, 2005 1:15 pm

some of the HP gains are simply by it being more efficient it requires less power to make more power.. (less parasitic loss from being belt driven)

also it will pass less heat off to the air stream allowing higher boost levels and more advanced timing before detonation than the m90

when it comes to superchargers its hard to go wrong with an upgrade

Post by **eHoward** » Wed May 18, 2005 5:45 pm

I got beat pretty bad by the one in my friend's lightning.

Grim_Sage wrote: To anyone who hasn't installed one of these units; what is your opinion of the product?

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Wed May 18, 2005 6:14 pm

Hey Neb, weren't you criticizing this place when it first went online and now you are here asking for information? I will dig through Old Europe and look but that would be pretty funny if it is true.

Its not about psi. I dont' know how many times I haev to tell that to Fiero owners.

its about CFM.

That 112 flows more cfm per revolution. It compresses less air but moves more volume of it meaning it heats the air less making it more efficient.

it will be a spectacular upgrade and you should def look into getting it.

You will be able to run less boost then an M90 but make just as much if not more power because you are flowing more cfm and thts what the engine wants.

Think about running a Fiero with a 3800SC and he is running 12 psi on his m90 and you are running only 7 psi on the 112 and still sitting right next to him in a race. he will think something is wrong with his car and you wont' have to say a word. Just smile.

If you can afford it, I would get it. Not sure if the intercooler comes with the kit or not but I would def get it if its an add on.

AkursedX · Post by **AkursedX** » Wed May 18, 2005 6:57 pm

I recently compared my m90 to an m112 on a friend's lightning. The m112 is huge! I don't know any cfm #'s, but like previously mentioned, you will be flowing much more air.

I don't know what kind of other mods you have on your car, but I don't know if this would be the first major upgrade I would do.... I would want the heads ported to the max, and at least a bigger cam along with some huge injectors so I can actually utilize all the extra air I have flowing in. The M112 upgrade from intense is $1800 and I would first put that $1800 into what I previously mentioned, then save up another $1800 for the blower.

Grim_Sage · Post by **Grim_Sage** » Wed May 18, 2005 10:23 pm

Yes I criticized this place, but go ahead and find it; I need a good laugh as well.

Just as everyone else on here, I finally got tired of the lame ass bullshit.

There are days when I stand out looking at my car and I canâ€™t decide whether to take the gas container in my hand and fill the car... or pour it over the son of a bitch and watch it burn to the fucking ground.

There isn't much done to the motor, I'm just looking into future power that is if I keep it long enough to modify it.

Thanks for the info.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon May 30, 2005 1:53 pm

Grim_Sage wrote: or pour it over the son of a bitch and watch it burn to the fucking ground.

Well with the L67 you don't even need a gas can, just start it with the cover on the engine and wait...

As for the M112, it is a much better blower than the M90. But if you have the money and mechanical inclination, a Whipple would be a far better choice.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue May 31, 2005 12:56 am

Are there any bolt on kits for Whipples on L67's yet?
If not... mechanical inclination, no shit. Developing a supercharger kit would be a lot of work. I was looking into dropping an AutoRotor 1.3 litre that I have onto an L67, but the adapter plate got very complicated very quickly so I decided to go turbo instead.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue May 31, 2005 2:38 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Are there any bolt on kits for Whipples on L67's yet?
If not... mechanical inclination, no shit. Developing a supercharger kit would be a lot of work. I was looking into dropping an AutoRotor 1.3 litre that I have onto an L67, but the adapter plate got very complicated very quickly so I decided to go turbo instead.

There are not any kits, but it is a pretty easy swap so I hear. The hardest part is the drive shaft length (belt line-up), and the adapter plate, which is very simple IIRC.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue May 31, 2005 7:44 am

Have you ever LOOKED at the top of an L67 manifold? There's a lot of stuff that has to be located just so in order for it to work right. Conceptually, making an adapter plate is easy. Not so much in practice.

And in my case, the AutoRotor did not have a bypass valve, so the bypass would have to be integrated into the adapter plate, which would have made it too thick to laser cut and darmatically increased production costs by requiring a good deal of time on a CNC mill.
And once the blower's mounted to the top of the engine, it needs to have a throttle body adapter fabbed from scratch... right drive snout length... etc, etc, etc.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:20 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Have you ever LOOKED at the top of an L67 manifold? There's a lot of stuff that has to be located just so in order for it to work right. Conceptually, making an adapter plate is easy. Not so much in practice.

And in my case, the AutoRotor did not have a bypass valve, so the bypass would have to be integrated into the adapter plate, which would have made it too thick to laser cut and darmatically increased production costs by requiring a good deal of time on a CNC mill.
And once the blower's mounted to the top of the engine, it needs to have a throttle body adapter fabbed from scratch... right drive snout length... etc, etc, etc.

Well for the adapter plate there are a few corners you can cut. Now please realize that I don't own a L67 (never will...), and I have never closely inspected the blower/manifolds internals. But I know a lot about the Whipples as I have come very very close to buying one, and I had done all my research before-hand.

The L67 from the factory has coolant passages and like EGR passages through the blower and its mounting plate/manifold. Well the 2300AX (the Whipple best-sized for a L67), does not have any of these. Therefore your adapter plate can just block them off. And I think the blower has the same bolt configuration as the L67, but don't quote me on that. If so, you just tap the manifold, put a bunch of brass plugs in it, then mount the new blower. IIRC, the fuel lines have to be slightly rerouted, but I don't really remember. And the Whipple's use an external bypass valve, if you want one (good idea), so you run a pipe from the throttle body spacer adapter that needs to be built (easy), to the underside of the blower (not so easy...). It really isn't that bad so I hear, and on an otherwise bone stock L67, the power increase was dramatic, I want to say 130whp until it was maxxing out the MAF. I will find the web page in a little while about animuL's swap. If I ever get a L67, or get access to one, I would build a kit for mounting the 2300AX, but it would be around $4000, cuz dem blowers aint cheap!

The Dark Side of Will · Tue May 31, 2005 7:30 pm

I'd be flabbergasted if the appropriate Whipple had the same pattern as the M90. AFAIK, the Thunderbird M90 doesn't even have the same pattern as the L67 M90.

Fuel lines are small potato(e)s compared to installing the blower.
Not sure what you mean by "brass plugs".

TB adapter plate is NOT easy to build properly, especially if it has to carry a bypass valve and interface with a bypass duct in the adapter plate. You could just make up a thick plate, but unless you have some WILD CNC machinery, you won't have smoothly contoured shape change from TB to SC inlet.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:55 pm

I doubt it is the same pattern now that I think about it :scratch:

The adapter is easy if you can weld.

The brass plugs would be used to block off the coolant ports in the manifold that do not need to be used.

As I said before, I've never done it, I'm offering my advice based on a lot of reasearch on the 2300-3300 Whipples, and none on the 3800.

PervertedHamster · Post by **PervertedHamster** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:18 pm

Animul on the GP forum has jus got done making a adaptor to run the wipples on the 3800SC. If i had the money this is what i would do. I'll try to find the link.

PervertedHamster · Post by **PervertedHamster** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:21 pm

here you go...LOOKS SWEET!
http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m ... =1&smode=1

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:15 am

That kit is truly amazing looking. For a mere $3000, that is a really good price. Every piece there is laser cut or CNC machined, AMAZING quality.

I cannot do the same quality for the price he did, simple as that. And integrating all of the factory systems like he did, that shows dedication.

Now if he can manage to keep himself out of jail, that kit has a lot of potential to be a big item. I am impressed.