just how important is wheel/tire weight for handling purposes?
The wheels I've got weigh in at 20lbs each (16x7) and tires range from about 22# to 28#... so worst case scenario, is 48# per wheel/tire or if i switch to lighter wheels and tires, maybe as low as 38#.
does the 10# matter?
wheel/tire weight for handling/autocross purposes
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Shaun41178(2)
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JamesCurtis
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Most higher end tires are lighter. Look for things like kevlar belts instead of steel.
One thing that was interesting is that when I walked around the pits at the DC GP and spoke with the crew cheifs about tire choice, some of them gave up the stiffer sidewalls for lighter tire weight. A "V" speed rating might be fine for your purposes while a "W" or "Y" might just be extra weight.
One thing that was interesting is that when I walked around the pits at the DC GP and spoke with the crew cheifs about tire choice, some of them gave up the stiffer sidewalls for lighter tire weight. A "V" speed rating might be fine for your purposes while a "W" or "Y" might just be extra weight.
JamesCurtis wrote:Does anyone know of any "light" tires? I'm looking into getting some extra-light rims and I guess if there's such a thing as light tires i'd be interested in those too.
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Doug Chase
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Are there any even available any more? The only DOT tire I was aware of with Kevlar belts was the Hoosier A(or R)3S03. They went to steel belts on the new tire. I heard it had something to do with the govt requiring steel belts now for DOT approval. Not 100% sure on that last point, though.eHoward wrote:Most higher end tires are lighter. Look for things like kevlar belts instead of steel.
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The Dark Side of Will
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Fiero has about 100# unsprung weight per cornet... 10# reduction is 10%... That improves your sprung/unsprung ratio by similar amount...
Guesstimating 2800# car with 400# unsprung weight initially... ratio is 7. Dropping to 360# unsprung, the ratio rises to 7.78.
This means that your car is closer to being a package of ideal coupled single mass oscillators, rather than a package of coupled dual mass oscillators... your shocks and springs can do their work, while being complimented by tire stiffness and damping, rather than competing with tire stiffness and damping.
I agree that you should get pretty much everything you can get out of tightening the nut behind the wheel before you worry about unsprung weight.
Guesstimating 2800# car with 400# unsprung weight initially... ratio is 7. Dropping to 360# unsprung, the ratio rises to 7.78.
This means that your car is closer to being a package of ideal coupled single mass oscillators, rather than a package of coupled dual mass oscillators... your shocks and springs can do their work, while being complimented by tire stiffness and damping, rather than competing with tire stiffness and damping.
I agree that you should get pretty much everything you can get out of tightening the nut behind the wheel before you worry about unsprung weight.
I think you're right Doug. When did this happen???
Some tires have both Kevlar and steel now. I guess that's better then just steel. It comes down to the scale though.
Some tires have both Kevlar and steel now. I guess that's better then just steel. It comes down to the scale though.
Doug Chase wrote:Are there any even available any more? The only DOT tire I was aware of with Kevlar belts was the Hoosier A(or R)3S03. They went to steel belts on the new tire. I heard it had something to do with the govt requiring steel belts now for DOT approval. Not 100% sure on that last point, though.eHoward wrote:Most higher end tires are lighter. Look for things like kevlar belts instead of steel.
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Doug Chase
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fIEROWISEGUY
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"Tired" subject.
The TIRES you select to race on is far more important than the unsprung weight. If you spend big bucks for lite wheels and race against someone who runs street legal race tires, you'll loose.
Goodrich, Yokahama, and a few others sell street legal tires that come fronm the factory already shaved to a minimum legal depth, and with true racing rubber compounds and construction.
No street tire will ever come close to these. Goodyear sells shaved tires, but they still use the same rubber compound as their street tires. I've raced with them, and there is no way to compete.
If you want to competivly autocross or road race, get another set of wheels with this type of tire, and change at the track. Don't drive them to the track. In addition to wearing out quickly, the heat of normal driving causes the normally sticky racing compound to harden and loose grip.
By the way, these tires are often significantly CHEAPER than the true street tire. Why? Because they want you to WIN on their tires, for every one to see.
Goodrich, Yokahama, and a few others sell street legal tires that come fronm the factory already shaved to a minimum legal depth, and with true racing rubber compounds and construction.
No street tire will ever come close to these. Goodyear sells shaved tires, but they still use the same rubber compound as their street tires. I've raced with them, and there is no way to compete.
If you want to competivly autocross or road race, get another set of wheels with this type of tire, and change at the track. Don't drive them to the track. In addition to wearing out quickly, the heat of normal driving causes the normally sticky racing compound to harden and loose grip.
By the way, these tires are often significantly CHEAPER than the true street tire. Why? Because they want you to WIN on their tires, for every one to see.
For what it's worth,
fIEROWISEGUY
fIEROWISEGUY
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fIEROWISEGUY
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"Tired" subject.
The TIRES you select to race on is far more important than the unsprung weight. If you spend big bucks for lite wheels and race against someone who runs street legal race tires, you'll loose.
Goodrich, Yokahama, and a few others sell street legal tires that come fronm the factory already shaved to a minimum legal depth, and with true racing rubber compounds and construction.
No street tire will ever come close to these. Goodyear sells shaved tires, but they still use the same rubber compound as their street tires. I've raced with them, and there is no way to compete.
If you want to competivly autocross or road race, get another set of wheels with this type of tire, and change at the track. Don't drive them to the track. In addition to wearing out quickly, the heat of normal driving causes the normally sticky racing compound to harden and loose grip.
By the way, these tires are often significantly CHEAPER than the true street tire. Why? Because they want you to WIN on their tires, for every one to see.
Goodrich, Yokahama, and a few others sell street legal tires that come fronm the factory already shaved to a minimum legal depth, and with true racing rubber compounds and construction.
No street tire will ever come close to these. Goodyear sells shaved tires, but they still use the same rubber compound as their street tires. I've raced with them, and there is no way to compete.
If you want to competivly autocross or road race, get another set of wheels with this type of tire, and change at the track. Don't drive them to the track. In addition to wearing out quickly, the heat of normal driving causes the normally sticky racing compound to harden and loose grip.
By the way, these tires are often significantly CHEAPER than the true street tire. Why? Because they want you to WIN on their tires, for every one to see.
For what it's worth,
fIEROWISEGUY
fIEROWISEGUY
The first generation Falken Azenis Sports are pretty heavy. I bought a set and showed up when they were mounting them and grabbed one (245/45/17) and almost had them return them, but they had a couple mounted already.
But once I got them on the track, they were pretty amazing for just over $100 a tire! On broomed cement they stick like crazy. At that price I can drive on them anywhere and not give a shit. Just stay off snow and deep standing water. Some water isn't too bad. At Wheatstock is rained like mad and there was standing water on the track. I hit close to 100 on the straights and didn't crash and burn.
But once I got them on the track, they were pretty amazing for just over $100 a tire! On broomed cement they stick like crazy. At that price I can drive on them anywhere and not give a shit. Just stay off snow and deep standing water. Some water isn't too bad. At Wheatstock is rained like mad and there was standing water on the track. I hit close to 100 on the straights and didn't crash and burn.