Bad Coolant Leak - Front of Engine

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:52 pm

I had a bad feeling that the water under my car the other day was actually coolant, but I couldn't tell for sure. A 10 minute drive to work clinched it. I got out of my car in the parking lot to see a nice little trail of coolant drops following my car, and a nice puddle forming under the back.

All I can tell for sure is that its coming from the front of the engine. I can't see anything at all from the top, so its not from the T-stat. From the bottom, I can see that the front engine mount is soaked, as is the whole general area around and above it. The leak appears to be somewhere in the area between the alternator and water pump, but I can't see exactly where.

My best guess right now is that I blew the water pump gasket. Unless I cracked the block or blew the headgasket out the side of it, I can't think of anything else in that area that would leak so much. Like I said, it was pissin pretty good when I got to work, enough to make a puddle at least a foot wide. I'm going to see if I can pinpoint it, but I'm really hoping its just the gasket, cause I can make it to Kragen and back to pick up one of those.

Any dissenting opinions/other ideas?

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Guess I should add its an 86 GT. Could be the hose that comes off the water pump and runs towards the trunk. I'll have to check that out too. Looks like the coolant is running down the side of the block, though, so I'm betting on water pump gasket.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:00 pm

Weep hole in the water pump housing will start to piss coolant when the water pump is worn out.

If you haven't yet replaced your waterpump, I'm willing to bet it's your problem.

Water pump gasket is a possibility, too...

But just be aware that up in Canada, the waterpump WITH a gasket costs around $35 or so (plus core of $5.00), while the gasket set alone is like $25 or so. This is a Delco unit with a METAL impellor, not the cheapshit plastic one (which I presume is even cheaper). Granted, this price was about 4 years ago, but I see no reason for it to have changed. :scratch:

Don't just replace the gasket if the part itself is that cheap.

How do you tell where it's leaking from? Pressure wash it, blow it dry (hairdrier or compressed air) then dust the whole front of the motor liberally with talc or chalk (i.e., chalk-line chalk).

Start the bugger up, and idle it for a few minutes, then follow the little rivers.

Pyrthian · Post by **Pyrthian** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:01 pm

well, theres only 2 things in that area I can think of:
1> the pump bearing/weap hole
2> heater hose connection.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:02 pm

could also be as simple as a hose clamp. Could be down from underneath down by the front motor mount. You have the large hose down there that connects to the timing cover.

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:40 pm

Thanks for the ideas. I do recall now that the gasket is nearly as expensive as the pump itself, so if that appears to be the problem, I'll just replace the whole stupid thing. Same amount of work, and the pump IS old. I'm going to check for loose or broken hoses first, then for loose bolts and such, then we'll see. I'm fairly certain its not the water pump shaft, there didn't appear to be any coolant there. Will know more on Thursday when I have a chance to dig into it a bit.

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:41 pm

my money is on the weep hole... Do NOT replace with an OEM waterpump as they have a plastic impeller and are designed for planned failure, just use a plain 'ol VatoZone or Kragen unit with a stamped or cast steel impeller and runs about a whole $25.00 - $30.00

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:42 pm

OR, rent a coolant pressurizing kit from VatoZone so you can trully see where the leak is - but my money is all over a blown seal inside the pump, thereby coming out of the weep hole

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:04 pm

Oh I know all about the shitty plastic impeller water pumps. I'll be sure to open the box and check before I buy.

Xanth · Post by **Xanth** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:17 pm

Did you check the crossover pipe in front of the engine? I'm assuming 86's have them anyway.

I had a bad leak on mine that turned out to just be the crossover in front of the engine. One clamp was loose and coolant ran down the pipe and dripped down the middle.

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:05 pm

I'll check it out on Thursday, but I don't think its coming from that area. Seems to be coming from somewhere near the water pump and alternator.

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:26 pm

Fiero going...better car to be acquired.................

So I found the leak this morning. We all lose. It is...get ready for it...

The timing cover.

Fuck me dead.

I traced the leak up the motor mount and to the general area of the water pump. I was really hoping for a bad gasket on the pump or a weep hole leak. No such luck. I had to take the wheel off to be able to finally see it, and its not the pump itself.

I traced the leak up to the left side of the pump, and then I saw it. Coolant gushing from between the timing cover and the block, right behind the water pump. And this was at idle. I'd hate to think what it looked like at speed.

When I have time Saturday morning, I'm going to check all the bolts in the area and hope to God that one or more is loose, and maybe, just maybe, if I torque it back down, I can seal the leak back up. I very, very much doubt that will work, but its worth trying.

Otherwise, I'm pretty much fucked. I won't have time to go to a friends shop, pull the engine out of the car, rip apart the front of the motor and replace the gasket until some time in December. I need to get to work, the grocery store, etc before then.

So, in light of the fact that I'm getting sick of pumping cash into this car and the fact that its got plenty of other little maintainence issues that need money, I'm seriously considering selling this thing to someone with far more love for Fiero's than I and cutting my losses. Hell, first thing I did when I saw the leak a few days ago was to call up a buddy of mine who's in business and asked him to start crunching some numbers and seeing what kind of payments I'd be looking at on a much newer car.

Right now, if I can afford the payments and insurance, I've got my eye on a slightly used GTO. If its not feasible, I may just get a beater that will last me 6 months til I graduate college and can work full time and afford the payments.

I'll miss the Fiero, being she was my first car I bought myself, and I learned a ton working on her. But she just doesn't fit my needs anymore.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:37 pm

Timing cover isn't a huge deal. It's a pain, but it's not a massive amount more trouble than just the water pump.

It's fully accessible without having to yank the whole motor.

It's an afternoon job to be sure, but not a disaster. :salute:

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:39 pm

If I had a pulley puller, a shop (or at least a real floor jack) and the time to do it.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:59 pm

Pulley-puller can be borrowed from any number of part stores, a jack is useful but not necessary--and certainly not expensive...

Time, on the other hand... Can't help you there. :salute:

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:01 pm

Giving it more thought, you're probably right. Going in through the wheel well, I could probably get to it. And I could get a pulley puller from Vatozone.

The real problems are such:

A) I have nowhere to work on it. I live in an apartment complex. No one gave me shit the last time I worked on my car in the parking lot, but that won't last forever. The closest place I could work on it would be my dads house, and thats an hour away and over a small mountain, so I'm not entirely sure the car would make it, it pisses coolant pretty bad.

B) I have no time to work on it. The only day that I have more than a few hours here and there I could work on it is Friday, and tomorrows already booked solid, so I'm looking at next week, best case.

C) I'm sick of fixing this damn car. I haven't kept count and don't want to know how many thousands of dollars I've already put into it. I can't count on one hand the number of small yet time and money intense problems that still need addressing (A/C, heater core, clutch pedal, the whole damn suspension, etc etc). I've been considering getting rid of it for a while, and this is a strong motivation to go through with it.

Thinking out loud, though, its doable. I'm already bumming rides to work this weekend. Maybe next week, I can collect the parts and tools, then drive down to dad's Thursday night and go at it all day Friday and hope I have a working car to get me to work Saturday. We'll see, I'll have to start looking up the availability of parts online.

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:04 pm

Oh, and does anyone recall...

Do any of the water pump bolts go through the timing cover and into the block? I can't remember. Just wondering if I can pull the whole mess off at once, or if the pump has to come off first. Should just replace the pump while I have it out anyway. Bah.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:13 pm

I recall there being a couple of the bolts that go right through to the block. you won't need to remove the water pump, just the larger bolts. The ring of small 10mm bolts should be able to stay put.

The biggest challenge from what I remember is REALLY just getting it all to line up without the gasket moving around. However, I've since then been using gasket prep spray which glues the gasket on quite satisfactorally.

Remove the battery and plastic sheild--this will give you more room to work. Everything is accessible, but wear gloves or the compartment liner will give you a 5-day case of the itchies.

Fastback86 · Post by **Fastback86** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:25 pm

Its been a while since I've had the engine apart, but that sounds right. I'd prefer to pull the whole mess out at once and worry about replacing the water pump once its out. Lot easier than trying to unbolt everything in car.

I'm feeling a lot better about this project now that I've actually thought about it. Just remembered I'll need an air ratchet and compressor to get the center bolt out of the crank, but dad has that. I've ripped most of that compartment liner crap out, but I'll watch for it, its nasty. Good call on the battery and such.

Now then, what is this gasket prep spray you speak of? I haven't been to the parts store recently, is this new? It sounds like a can of awesome.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:38 pm

Nah, if you pull the wheel off, you can get at the crank snout with a handful of socket extensions. An impact gun makes this an easy treat, however.