Quad4 Gurus - Need info for Swap!

yeyo_racing · Post by **yeyo_racing** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:42 am

Ok, so it's time for me to move on to another chapter with my Fiero. This time I won't be following the V6 route so I will ditch my mildly modded 2.8 in favor of more standard HP baseline and leaner mass. A family friend has given me a 1991 Grand Prix with a LO Quad4 engine "Vin D" mated to a 125c auto tranny. The Car has been sitting in their front yard for almost 6 months. I know is not the HO version but with minor modding it can reach that level. I always wanted a Quad4 and finally got my chance not to mention the whole car is free!

What I'm planning to do to get it started is rebuilt the whole engine to HO specs with new pistons, HO cams and damper, custom header (obiusly needed), and mild port and polish the 086 head. I will use ARP studs and bolts from Top to Bottom for added safety. My Fiero is auto from stock so I will just rebuilt the Quad tranny with a good kit (Alto probably) a good band, shift kit and higher stall converter (probably use the one in the quad). I will try to get a hold on another cradle to make the swap easier. What I'm planning is to put the engine running good NA for now. Turbo will be later since I have a T3/T4 hybrid laying around which also got for free.

I have done some searching and reading but need more information on what is needed to accomplish this swap. Now let's get to the questions.

1- How many engine mounts I need to fabricate to mount it in the Fiero?
2- Where do they need to be located?
3- Where can I get drawings of the mounting point fabrication if any?
4- Where can I find wiring diagrams?
5- What mods can be done to the 125c to handle 6500 rpms at least?

More questions later.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:34 pm

yeyo_racing wrote:
1- How many engine mounts I need to fabricate to mount it in the Fiero?
2- Where do they need to be located?
3- Where can I get drawings of the mounting point fabrication if any?
4- Where can I find wiring diagrams?
5- What mods can be done to the 125c to handle 6500 rpms at least?

More questions later.

1) all of them.
2) between the motor and the car.
3) nowhere
4) FSM
5) None.

yeyo_racing · Post by **yeyo_racing** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:47 pm

Wow. Great explanation! :blah5:

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:55 pm

well, your basically asking for a complete build thread, and as far as I know, none exist. All motor mounts will need to be fabricated, between the motor and the cradle, or firewall. Use the existing mount locations and fab to fit the engine where the tranny is in the right spot and the motor is level. The Wiring diagrams are not online, so you will have to figure them out from the FSM. www.quad4forums.com is a great source of info. The 125c will not make the car feel good, that motor begs for a getrag. The HO mated to a 125c will be less powerful than a LO mated to one, as the powerband is out of the transmission shift point range. I would look for a newer 2.4 twin cam 5 spd, and make that work. Swapping in pedals and clutch hydraulics is not the end of the world.

Standard · Post by **Standard** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:55 pm

yeyo_racing wrote: 1- How many engine mounts I need to fabricate to mount it in the Fiero?
2- Where do they need to be located?
3- Where can I get drawings of the mounting point fabrication if any?
4- Where can I find wiring diagrams?
5- What mods can be done to the 125c to handle 6500 rpms at least?

More questions later.

1. At least 3
2. Under the timing cover, back passenger side of the engine, and front center of the engine
3. don't have any
4. see above
5. Throw it in a dumpster and install a manual tranny.

Seriously, don't use an auto tranny.

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:04 pm

If you have access to the powertrain, do an Ecotec instead.

I have a Q4 bellhousing for the 282 that I'll let go, just for you.

yeyo_racing · Post by **yeyo_racing** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:09 pm

Ok, so there is no way the car will feel right with the auto. So which route should I go:

1- Find a manual fiero to swap all the shift parts and search for a getrag?
2- Get a J body, remove the tranny and buy the rest of the parts to do the conversion?

Both cars are very hard to find in Puerto Rico. Actually I haven't seen any other fiero driving around for a very long time, more than 5 years.

Will, I will gladly take the 282 bellhousing if you guys help me out with at least moral support. I don't think I will do the Ecotec now, there are too few available and the ones that are are very fucked up left @ open air playing with the climate. Then they want to sell it for $1K. No thanks :nono:

Standard, you where the first one to get me thinking in doing this swap since the day I saw yours. What has been your impression with the stock HO engine so far? Have you taken it to the track? What about fuel mileage with the stick shift?

yeyo_racing · Post by **yeyo_racing** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:01 pm

Will, a friend of mine has a getrag out from a V6 chevy. Are you still willing to lend me (or sell me) the 282 bellhousing? Let me know I'm interested.

I went junkyarding today and found a 1997 cavalier with a 2.4 TC and manual transmission. He's asking $1,200 for the whole engine and transmission. :bs: That's just about the same a running car this year would cost.

Anyway, back to the tranny topic. Do these come with the 282 getrag? How can I identify it? I took some pictures that will be posting later. Also found a manual transmission from pontiac sunbird. Is this a getrag or isuzu? I took some pictures that will be posting later.

Does anyone knows if the Getrag F23 transmission bolt to the quad? I believe this tranny comes in cavys and sunfires from 2000+ so it may be easier to find one than a 282 getrag.

Sorry for all the questions.

yeyo_racing · Post by **yeyo_racing** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:50 pm

2.4 engine

2.4 tranny

Sunbird Tranny

Not perfect. Pics taken with my phone.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:48 am

thats not a getrag, you can tell because there is no acces hole for the shift rails inside the bellhousing. I cant say for sure if its an izusu though.

yeyo_racing · Post by **yeyo_racing** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:35 am

Ok, so if it is an isuzu could it be possible to change the selector bracket and cable bracket with a Fiero one?

Anyone has input on the F23 tranny?

Sorry for so many questions.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:34 pm

That's an Isuzu; I can tell by the shift assembly.

befarrer · Post by **befarrer** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:36 am

The thing with running an auto behind a HO quad 4 is that GM never did it, and therefore the programming in the ECM does not exist, the HO has different cams and injectors than a LO, so bolting a LO ECM on a HO may not work the greatest.

All Quad 4's from 1994 and older were Getrag's. 1995 and up all used Isuzu's, including all 2.4L Twin Cams. The bellhousings are all the same, but unique with all others, so I doubt the F23 will work, I think that is the Ecotech tranny, which has a different bellhousing again, same with the 2.0L OHC Sunbird.

For my mounts, I just left them on the motor, and welded up brackets and stuff to bolt the mounts to the cradle. This is not the best pic, but you can see my rear mount here, this mount also takes place of the dogbone, which a 1991 and older Quad 4 do no have:

Oh, I have gotten as high as 41MPG (CDN) with my Quad 4 doing 120kn/h, all highway, the lowest I have seen is 35MPG, but I live in a small town, so my driving includes at least 50% highway per tank.

Standard · Post by **Standard** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:01 am

yeyo_racing wrote: Standard, you where the first one to get me thinking in doing this swap since the day I saw yours. What has been your impression with the stock HO engine so far? Have you taken it to the track? What about fuel mileage with the stick shift?

It's fun, but definatly not neck-snapping fast. With another 30hp or so it would be great. I do get a kick from winding it out to the redline.. Haven't had a chance to take it to the track. With a good launch it'll hang with a stock V6 in good shape, and I can wind out first a bit longer so I'm ahead by the 1-2 shift and just keeps going from there. Been a while since I kept track of the mileage, I think it was in the 30's. I tend to romp on it whenver I take it out now, and it needs a good tune-up so I"m sure it's fallen into the mid 20's.

My swap was built with an Isuzu tranny out of a '99 sunfire, I think it was. It's held up great through some hard driving, hasn't skipped a beat yet.

yeyo_racing · Post by **yeyo_racing** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:48 am

Standard wrote:My swap was built with an Isuzu tranny out of a '99 sunfire, I think it was. It's held up great through some hard driving, hasn't skipped a beat yet.

What did you do to the shift and selector arm linkage? Did you replaced it with one from the Fiero or modified the one from the sunfire?

The Dark Side of Will wrote:I have a Q4 bellhousing for the 282 that I'll let go, just for you.

I'm interested Will. A friend of mine has a FWD Getrag that is willing to sell me for $200. Finding one of these trannys is like finding Gold.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:02 am

No prob. Email me.

befarrer · Post by **befarrer** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:47 pm

[quote="Standard]
My swap was built with an Isuzu tranny out of a '99 sunfire, I think it was. It's held up great through some hard driving, hasn't skipped a beat yet.[/quote]

How is that tranny for shifting, and gear ratio's? I was running a 1990 Getrag, with the 3.61 FDR, but I am going to be running a 92 Getrag with the 3.92 gears, and 1/2 the mileage on the tranny.

Real Fiero Tech

Quad4 Gurus - Need info for Swap!

Quad4 Gurus - Need info for Swap!

Re: Quad4 Gurus - Need info for Swap!

Re: Quad4 Gurus - Need info for Swap!