Concept to Realization
Moderator: Series8217
Re: Concept to Realization
Seems like the conversation always goes back to hypotheticals on this topic. No the 3800 isn't light, yes its a boat anchor, yes its iron. But then again, what is a Fiero? Its heavy, iron, and a boat anchor. That's why they belong together I guess... or is it?
What's most important here is track record. What engine is notoriously the most reliable. Which engine has put more cars at the top of the 1/4 list? Which engine physically fits the best and/or is the easiest to install. I think you all get it.... (If you don't, it's the 3800). We can go back to paper and say "X isn't ideal because its heavier than Y", "wouldn't it be nice if X were made from the materials Y is", but then again the Fiero is pretty far from ideal to begin with. Like I said, too many people try to make the car into something it isn't, and they never even finish swapping the engine. The people who settle for engine's like the 3800 get their car put together and get to enjoy the car for what it is, pretty far from ideal, but still fun for a thirty year old platform. I think both forums undercut reliability far too much. Sure we all have expectations, but what's the point of having the car at all if we can't get in it whenever we want and drive it across the country if need be. Swaps like the LNF, 3.6 DOHC, Ecotech, etc have either little or absolutely no track record. What's the guys name on piffle who's been trying to get his Ecotech going for years? Its been so long that there's a celebration when a video of the engine idling is posted... I mean come on, we have to have higher expectation than to simply hear the motor start in two years. That's a lot of wasted life.
If we are going split hairs, the first thing that needs to get crushed is the Fiero.
Note: I'm not taking anything personal here, or directing anything at anyone. I've just spent way more time in my life than I'd like to thinking about this concept. I might as well put those thoughts out there.
What's most important here is track record. What engine is notoriously the most reliable. Which engine has put more cars at the top of the 1/4 list? Which engine physically fits the best and/or is the easiest to install. I think you all get it.... (If you don't, it's the 3800). We can go back to paper and say "X isn't ideal because its heavier than Y", "wouldn't it be nice if X were made from the materials Y is", but then again the Fiero is pretty far from ideal to begin with. Like I said, too many people try to make the car into something it isn't, and they never even finish swapping the engine. The people who settle for engine's like the 3800 get their car put together and get to enjoy the car for what it is, pretty far from ideal, but still fun for a thirty year old platform. I think both forums undercut reliability far too much. Sure we all have expectations, but what's the point of having the car at all if we can't get in it whenever we want and drive it across the country if need be. Swaps like the LNF, 3.6 DOHC, Ecotech, etc have either little or absolutely no track record. What's the guys name on piffle who's been trying to get his Ecotech going for years? Its been so long that there's a celebration when a video of the engine idling is posted... I mean come on, we have to have higher expectation than to simply hear the motor start in two years. That's a lot of wasted life.
If we are going split hairs, the first thing that needs to get crushed is the Fiero.
Note: I'm not taking anything personal here, or directing anything at anyone. I've just spent way more time in my life than I'd like to thinking about this concept. I might as well put those thoughts out there.
- crzyone
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Re: Concept to Realization
The Fiero is heavy for what it is. Adding to the weight with a cast iron lump is compounding the problem. On the list an 84 Fiero with Iron Duke is 2600#. That's getting in the ballpark of acceptable. Getting rid of the 2.8 for a smaller lighter engine will also help weight balance.
I couldn't care less about 1/4 mile times. I'm more impressed by quick auto x or road course times personally. That's why I said if I ever got back into the Fiero game I would start with an 88. They seem to be much better around an auto x track than the older gen Fieros.
I couldn't care less about 1/4 mile times. I'm more impressed by quick auto x or road course times personally. That's why I said if I ever got back into the Fiero game I would start with an 88. They seem to be much better around an auto x track than the older gen Fieros.
Re: Concept to Realization
Well I mean... which problem is that? That its an unsuitable track car? Nothings going to solve that but a chunk amount of money, which you said yourself is why you got out of Fiero's. A $1500 Miata will kick the snot out of a Fiero when it comes to corners. You have to enjoy the Fiero for what it is, a commuter / street sports car. I've ridden in a pretty planted and competitive 3800 Fiero, I don't think it would have had any problem smashing a lighter block V6 around a track. Maybe it sacrificed a little bit in the curves, but it pulled like no other in the straights. Most important was that it didn't break when being pushed like a scalded dog.crzyone wrote:Adding to the weight with a cast iron lump is compounding the problem.
- crzyone
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Re: Concept to Realization
I'm sure a properly built 88 Fiero can be competitive with a Miata. I sold my Fiero because it was the wrong platform. I didn't want to dump a ton of cash into a 86 Fiero. If I started with an 88 I'd maybe still have it.
- Series8217
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Re: Concept to Realization
I hardly even drive my Fiero on the street anymore. It's a blast on the track and exhaustingly addictive in AutoX. All the damn thing needed was a fast steering rack and Fieroguru's lateral link relocation brackets. My buddy with a Cayman S drove my Fiero at an autox and said he wanted to set up his Cayman to have the same feel.Emc209i wrote: You have to enjoy the Fiero for what it is, a commuter / street sports car.
- Identity Crisis
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Re: Concept to Realization
So it would seem that in one way or another that my idea of going with a 3800 and my base power upgrade is a good idea and then to build on from there?
DO we all agree on that?
So with that in mind are there areas I need to look out for with doing a 3800 Swap?
DO we all agree on that?
So with that in mind are there areas I need to look out for with doing a 3800 Swap?
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Re: Concept to Realization
Do YOU agree with that?Identity Crisis wrote:
DO we all agree on that?
It's YOUR car. Our agreement is irrelevant.
Re: Concept to Realization
Agree with Will. But I personally hate the 3800 and would never swap one. Heavy, boring, inefficient, old technology, and they sound awful.
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
Re: Concept to Realization
Will's right, its ultimately up to you. But I don't think anyone here can fault you on going with the 3800, if that's what you decide. I personally think its the wise decision.
Boring - hardly.
Inefficient - It's boosted, that becomes a pretty low priority.
Old tech - Proven tech.
Sound - With the right exhaust they sound great. (BMWGuru's exhaust)
Again, we're back to hypotheticals. What are some real world examples of a better suited engine, Aaron? We're trying to help this guy find the best fit.
Heavy - lighter than the engine you chose...Aaron wrote:Agree with Will. But I personally hate the 3800 and would never swap one. Heavy, boring, inefficient, old technology, and they sound awful.
Boring - hardly.
Inefficient - It's boosted, that becomes a pretty low priority.
Old tech - Proven tech.
Sound - With the right exhaust they sound great. (BMWGuru's exhaust)
Again, we're back to hypotheticals. What are some real world examples of a better suited engine, Aaron? We're trying to help this guy find the best fit.
- crzyone
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Re: Concept to Realization
He is looking for a driver, a 3800 auto will do that.
It doesn't make sense to have a heavy engine and transmission in a small sporty car but to each his own.
It doesn't make sense to have a heavy engine and transmission in a small sporty car but to each his own.
Re: Concept to Realization
Do we know of a smaller sportier engine that has a track record?
- crzyone
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Re: Concept to Realization
The Ecotec. It has a track record in the cars it comes in.
I think the reason you don't see it in Fieros is the Fiero owner mindset. Taking out a V-6 and installing a 4 cylinder doesn't cross many Fiero owners minds. Even though a stock Ecotec has the same or more power than the 2.8 with lighter weight and better fuel economy it's not even considered a swap. A Turbo ecotec is another animal all together.
A relatively small turbo ecotec for good response would be the ultimate swap imo. It won't get you the wow factor of a supercharged boat anchor or SBC but it'll smoke them on a race track.
The swap might not be for armatures or first timers but it can't be that hard. Once a few have been done properly and a few build threads people won't be so reluctant to swap them in.
I think the reason you don't see it in Fieros is the Fiero owner mindset. Taking out a V-6 and installing a 4 cylinder doesn't cross many Fiero owners minds. Even though a stock Ecotec has the same or more power than the 2.8 with lighter weight and better fuel economy it's not even considered a swap. A Turbo ecotec is another animal all together.
A relatively small turbo ecotec for good response would be the ultimate swap imo. It won't get you the wow factor of a supercharged boat anchor or SBC but it'll smoke them on a race track.
The swap might not be for armatures or first timers but it can't be that hard. Once a few have been done properly and a few build threads people won't be so reluctant to swap them in.
- Identity Crisis
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Re: Concept to Realization
Yes since I have experience in the L67 that is the route I believe I will be taking.
Also interesting Vid, I just happened across.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRR8RlAQro0
Also interesting Vid, I just happened across.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRR8RlAQro0
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Re: Concept to Realization
Oh oh oh oh, can I post a video of a Civic beating a Pagani Zonda?
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
- Series8217
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Re: Concept to Realization
That doesn't show anything except that the ZR1 driver had a lousy reaction time...Identity Crisis wrote:Yes since I have experience in the L67 that is the route I believe I will be taking.
Also interesting Vid, I just happened across.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRR8RlAQro0
- Identity Crisis
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Re: Concept to Realization
Guys come on now, just saw this video and thought I would share thats all.
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Re: Concept to Realization
Lol... that's ok. No video's going to satisfy everyone. Steven and I are both pretty data-driven guys... the gee whiz videos don't do much for us.
I still like to see cars run fast, though.
I still like to see cars run fast, though.
Re: Concept to Realization
They're just mad that their Fiero's can't pull like that in the eighth.Identity Crisis wrote:Guys come on now, just saw this video and thought I would share thats all.
If only someone had been there to guide them towards the Buick boat anchor.
You get special treatment Bull.
- Identity Crisis
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Re: Concept to Realization
LOL thanks buddy.Emc209i wrote:They're just mad that their Fiero's can't pull like that in the eighth.Identity Crisis wrote:Guys come on now, just saw this video and thought I would share thats all.
If only someone had been there to guide them towards the Buick boat anchor.
You get special treatment Bull.
2015 Dodge Journey RT Rally AWD
2014 Dodge Ram 1500 Sport
1992 Pontiac Grand Prix STE
1987 Pontiac Fiero GT
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT
2014 Dodge Ram 1500 Sport
1992 Pontiac Grand Prix STE
1987 Pontiac Fiero GT
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT