High Feature V6 Swap

[draven]

great googly moogly.... a freak'n 04 saturn ion redline intermediate shaft with reluctor is borderline unobtanium.... called 20 yards across the country yesterday and either they sold it or don't ship.... the NOS ones I found were anywhere from 350$-800$ (supply an demand I guess)

Going to order a few different ACDelco speed sensor reluctor's and see if any of those were used on the same intermediate shaft as the rest of the saab 9-3/9-5/GM ecotechs and can be pressed on as is or a honed out to fit.

[draven]

No dice on the first reluctor Acdelco 24202711 , only a 30mm inside diameter, and the saab intermediate shaft is 40-45mm in diameter and not enough meat in the wheel to bore that much out...

Waiting on mail for acdelco reluctor 8686074 to try next?

Does anyone know about this one #12382782 ?

UPDATE: Well just spent an hour on the phone with Acdelco and they are "zero" help even with part numbers..."inside diameter" is apparently "proprietary information".....jesus...

[ericjon262]

thought of having something laser/water cut? they aren't a complicated design, I bet I could draw something up pretty quick.

[ericjon262]

Drawn for 2.25" OD, 1.77"(45mm) ID, 0.125" thickness. probably should be thicker, but it's just a quick draft.

Edit:

30 teeth

vss reluctor.png (37.07 KiB) Viewed 3375 times

[ericjon262]

round 2, 0.25" thickness, and added radius to the tooth root.

vss reluctor.png (67.4 KiB) Viewed 3373 times

[draven]

Thanks Eric,

you're far quicker than I at CAD'ing things up...

The axle is hollow and 45mm or ~1.77" in diameter

Here's a shot of the reluctor I'm trying to duplicate off the saturn ION redline



let me do the math to back into a 4000ppm tooth count, as that's what the mr2 spyder power steering pump needs for predictable operation.

[ericjon262]

no prob, I can send you the file if you want, this one is 30 teeth, but I could make more or less, it's not too hard to do.

Edit:

4000 PPM or 40,000? whats your tire size? a 30 tooth reluctor will put you in the 20000 PPM range. I know older GM PCM's output a 4000 PPM signal from the PCM, I don't think any high feature engine PCM's do though. you may have to get a Dakota Digital box to step down the signal.

[draven]

yeah.. started the calculations and realized that would be a 4-5 tooth reluctor....doh...

Tire size is 275/35/18 soooo....

192.5 mm total tire height both sides
457.2 mm total wheel height
649.7 mm total tire and wheel height
25.57874 in total tire and wheel height
25.57874 x pi for tire circumference
80.35798167 tire circumference
63,360 in / mile
63,360 / 80.358 for revolutions per mile
788.4715896 revolutions per mile

probably go with a tooth count that would be in the ball park of what the E92 ECU currently receives for the cadillac XTS and easily divided out to revert to 4000ppm for the power steering pump.

Edit: let me talk to the guys doing my E92 ECM programming, Alpha Fab Motorsports, and find out what the default PPM is for the XTS

[ericjon262]

Lol, I was gonna say...

how do you plan to attach the reluctor? press fit?

[draven]

Lol, I was gonna say...

how do you plan to attach the reluctor? press fit?

Yes, press fit or heat and slip it on like a flywheel gear ring or abs tone ring to cv axle stub...

I would assume a standard ferrous A36 steel or 4140 alloy would trigger a reluctor.

[ericjon262]

something to keep in mind, the teeth on the reluctor I have drawn, are about .1" long, I'm not sure how much skinnier you can go and still get an accurate indication, most reluctors I have seen, have much larger teeth than that.

Edit:

didn't see your remark about the steel, that I'm not sure, the reluctor on my car (for the CPS) looks like plain mild steel. I would imagine any ferrous steel would work.

[draven]

The one acdelco reluctor I've received thus far had pretty damn small teeth... at the most .1"

[ericjon262]

The one acdelco reluctor I've received thus far had pretty damn small teeth... at the most .1"

I imagine the pickup placement becomes much more sensitive with the smaller teeth.

[draven]

Acdelco reluctor wheel #8672207 just came this weekend is a no go as well... better than the one mentioned above but still not enough diameter nor meat to bore out...

[draven]

Looks like I'll be going with one of EricJohn's reluctor wheels

If the half shaft diameter is 1.577" what is a good press fit or head and slip fit diameter for the reluctor?

[ericjon262]

right on, as far as press fit, I'm not sure on what the ID should be, I think it is going to depend on the steel allow of both the axle and reluctor. I'm going to take another look at my reluctor design, at the teeth aren't quite even, once that's fixed, and we have a proper ID, I can send you copies of the model.

Edit:

Tooth gap is fixed. all I need now is what you want for your final ID and I can quickly button it up for you.

[draven]

thanks!!! I want to try one more reluctor from GM, it's a 30 tooth and might be the same they pressed onto the '04 Saturn redline halfshaft....

[draven]

Here she is...










This is out of a 2015 Cadillac XTS with 35k miles and is the transverse version of the engine.


Problems I see already...

1.) the massive oil cooler may have to go as it might interfere with the cradle and I've never been hip to having oil and coolant in such close proximity to one another.


2) The saab halfshaft looks to be a bust without modification as the oil return line uses the location of one of the mount holes, going to obtain an LF3 transverse bracket and hope the axle is still in the same location relative to the differential output of the F40.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Twins!

I didn't know they had turbo'd the XTS's. Awesome!

Going for 600 at the tire?

In addition to the turbo drain vs. the Saab half shaft, the oil cooler vs. the forward cradle crossmember is going to be a fun one as well.
Since that car is transverse, how did its driveline work around the turbo oil drain?

[draven]

After finally getting the transverse lf3 block in front of me, it might have been better to buy it without extra $$ for the turbos intact and just remote mount a GT or Holset over the transmission as the twins do add a fair amount of girth and complexity.

As far as oil filter/cooler issue.. might have that one solved by
1.) going with an llt/lfx remote oil cooler adapter from cbm motorsports
https://store.custombuiltmotors.com/oil ... apter.html
but will have to plumb in an appropriate feed for the sender and turbo feed.
or
2.) mount a longitudinal LF3/LF4 oil filter housing adapter from the ATS-V but that might still impact the front cradle crossmember but it does include fitting for a remote cooler. Same as above just on far side of oil pan.
or
3.) grab an impala or camaro housing and mill off the extension and essentially replicate 1. above.

My goal right now is just to get it all together and working trusting that Alpha Fab motorsports can deliver on their end of the E92 ECU programming and harness. The HPFP is limited to 610~620hp and those minute little TD04's will never hit that level and the A2W is ok but they upgraded it for the 2017 ATSVR due to heat soak issues...

Maybe a pair of GT28's like some do to the 370z's?

Lots of options with a motor and project like this...gotta keep the scope creep to an absolute minimum where not logically needed...