3.4tdc crank vs. 2.8 crank

[The Dark Side of Will]

Well then all he has to do is mill out the sides of the block between main webbing and have plates welded in a little further out. Don't bother with 4 bolt caps, just custom machine a lower crank case and fab a custom pan to go with.

[donk_316]

Hey how about you change my post back. It was relevant.

Spellcheck that motherfucker.

If it was worth typing the first time, it's worth typing again.

Your: belonging to you
You're: contraction of You and Are
Look at which one you used. Consider which one you should have used.

LOL! But if you use fragmented sentences...it's OK! Dont be a cock. Just admit when your wrong and be done with it as opposed to attacking my use of the word "your".

A) I wasn't wrong. I speakie Engrish goode.
B) I'm the moderator
C) Review A and B

lol! okay...noted.

[p8ntman442]

instead of a new thread, I think Id like to salvage this one. I promise to be nice.

I just read that the 3.4 uses the stock pushrod cam only it dosent have lobes??? This is to drive the oil pump and the other cam belts ride on a pulley???


WTF?? is this true. That sucks, as my removable lifter bore section is also the top of the cam bearing journals, if I remove the lifter bores and use the oil feed to feed the heads, then I will have to machine cam caps. Not too dificult, but another pain in the ass problem.

not like the machine shop bill for this build wouldnt be big anyways.

[crzyone]

It is true. The 3.4dohc is a 5 cam motor.

[Series8217]

Don't look like no durn cam shaft tah me! More like four cams and a jackshaft, yeehaw.
Could just run dry sump and then you j ust have to deal with the belt drive, yeehaw.

[SappySE107]

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[donk_316]

Just so happens that I have a Dry Sump for a 60 V6

[Aaron]

Exactly, for all you plan to do, I would run a drysump and say to hell with the dummy cam anyway. Not cheap though, but what is when you want to make a pushrod block work as a DOHC.

You have told me numerous times that it can't be done, isn't worth doing, and would never work right.

I mentioned this idea to you about a year ago remember?

I'd also fix the timing belt issues. Either swap to a chain, or fix the belt(Wider/thicker, or dual belts)

[p8ntman442]

aaron for all practical purposes it wouldnt. And I dont need to do it as this block has better oiling than a stock block. Rumor has it it revved to 8 grand plus with its ballanced internals. Wether the internals I got with it are balanced or not is undetermined.

[Aaron]

aaron for all practical purposes it wouldnt. And I dont need to do it as this block has better oiling than a stock block. Rumor has it it revved to 8 grand plus with its ballanced internals. Wether the internals I got with it are balanced or not is undetermined.

I agree with the first statement, but I am also looking to mod the DOHC in radical ways, and really to the max while still keeping it a daily drivable, streetable motor IMO.

And the mod isn't simply for oiling. You know that I think the DOHC's oiling issues aren't that bad, and are easily remedied, whether it be by larger capacity, higher flow pumps, larger drain backs, the bearings you pointed out, or another way. It will also add power, and I could honestly see 30hp if done correctly.

I think you should look into it. I can't for the time being, as I just want a DOHC Fiero already, and am willing to procrastinate some mods to get it(ITB, headers, etc). But it is in the back of my mind, and if and when my block blows, and I have the funds to go all out, it will definately be in the plans.

[donk_316]

And the mod isn't simply for oiling. You know that I think the DOHC's oiling issues aren't that bad, and are easily remedied, whether it be by larger capacity, higher flow pumps, larger drain backs, the bearings you pointed out, or another way. It will also add power, and I could honestly see 30hp if done correctly.

How does a better oiling system net you 30hp? Are you talking about using a dry sump?

[Aaron]

And the mod isn't simply for oiling. You know that I think the DOHC's oiling issues aren't that bad, and are easily remedied, whether it be by larger capacity, higher flow pumps, larger drain backs, the bearings you pointed out, or another way. It will also add power, and I could honestly see 30hp if done correctly.

How does a better oiling system net you 30hp? Are you talking about using a dry sump?

Yes I am.

First off, you don't have to drive the oil pump. If water pumps take about 10hp, what's an oil pump worth? It is typically around 15hp, but I have seen it as high as 20 on cars like the LT5 Vettes. An electric pump is used instead.

Secondly, think of all the reduced rotating mass. The intermediate shaft weighs a lot! You also don't have the friction of the shaft, the oil pump, etc.

Lastly, a different form of timing chain/belt will allow for more precise, and more accurate over long durations, of the cam timing. Ben, wasn't it you who has seen a stock DOHC be so far as 4* off? :uhoh:

I'm not saying its for sure 30hp, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

[The Dark Side of Will]

First off, you don't have to drive the oil pump. If water pumps take about 10hp, what's an oil pump worth? It is typically around 15hp, but I have seen it as high as 20 on cars like the LT5 Vettes. An electric pump is used instead.

Say what? Where do you think that electrical power comes from?

Reality check: approximately 750 watts per HP. If the pump takes 15 HP to drive, and you have a 12 volt electrical system, you're going to be pulling over 900 amps to drive it.

That's why dry sump systems are ALWAYS engine driven. Typically by cog belt but I suppose in clean sheet pure race engines (ie, IRL, CART, F1...) they could be incorporated into the engine and gear driven off the crank.

Where are you getting your oil pump parasitic loss data?

FYI, Northstar flows more oil than the LT5.

[eHoward]

It's magic and comes from fairies@!

I could see electric power being optimal on a drag car, but not on a street car.

First off, you don't have to drive the oil pump. If water pumps take about 10hp, what's an oil pump worth? It is typically around 15hp, but I have seen it as high as 20 on cars like the LT5 Vettes. An electric pump is used instead.

Say what? Where do you think that electrical power comes from?

Reality check: approximately 750 watts per HP. If the pump takes 15 HP to drive, and you have a 12 volt electrical system, you're going to be pulling over 900 amps to drive it.

That's why dry sump systems are ALWAYS engine driven. Typically by cog belt but I suppose in clean sheet pure race engines (ie, IRL, CART, F1...) they could be incorporated into the engine and gear driven off the crank.

Where are you getting your oil pump parasitic loss data?

FYI, Northstar flows more oil than the LT5.

[Aaron]

First off, you don't have to drive the oil pump. If water pumps take about 10hp, what's an oil pump worth? It is typically around 15hp, but I have seen it as high as 20 on cars like the LT5 Vettes. An electric pump is used instead.

Say what? Where do you think that electrical power comes from?

Reality check: approximately 750 watts per HP. If the pump takes 15 HP to drive, and you have a 12 volt electrical system, you're going to be pulling over 900 amps to drive it.

That's why dry sump systems are ALWAYS engine driven. Typically by cog belt but I suppose in clean sheet pure race engines (ie, IRL, CART, F1...) they could be incorporated into the engine and gear driven off the crank.

Where are you getting your oil pump parasitic loss data?

FYI, Northstar flows more oil than the LT5.

So the thousands of dynoes on electric water pumps lie? How else do they gain 5-15whp?

Here is just an electric oil pump that can flow enough to be the main supply pump for an average engine. Although it isn't made specifically for a dry sump, there is no reason it can't be used. The only drawback would be of course when the elctric motor fails, but you should recognize this when you abruptly lose oil pressure:

http://www.emp-corp.com/html/products/a ... l_pump.htm

[p8ntman442]

so long my precious thread I will miss you.


moderator you may as well move this to the trashcan.....errr luminas I mean.

[Lex]

moderator you may as well move this to the trashcan.....errr luminas I mean.

hahahah!

[Aaron]

I never even mentioned Luminas, but even if I did, it applies considering this is a discussion on the 3.4 DOHC, found in Luminas.

Do you need to see more electric oil pumps? If I did it, I'd use an electric one, no doubt about it.

[p8ntman442]

no I need you to get the fuck out of my thread, I asked about the fucking fifth cam and you proceed to argue bullshit with others over dry sumps. If I had the money to put on a dry sump, Id have the fucking money to add 30 hp somewhere else, like boost. Who cares about the gains.

Electric pumps on the dyno show gains, but put a load tester on the battery during the run and after, your gonna be using hp pulling a bigger electromagnetic field in your alternator to charge the battery.

[SappySE107]

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