The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I wonder just how wide of a tolerance gm is working with on a flex plate. And how much of a contribution that makes when they break?

I don't know... but I'm just using it as a ring gear mount.
I've seen engine thrust bearings damaged by the torque converter ballooning from high temperatures... The worst adverse effect I've seen on flexplates is cracking around the converter bolt holes.

My concern is for mostly selfish reasons

(Not my photo)
7FB3DD06-C9D6-47FB-A274-AC54C50E5207.jpeg


Ballooning is more of a charge pressure issue

Mmmmm Carnage <3

I haven't seen one of those in person, but it looks fun. I would guess that's from a torque converter that's out of tolerance for installation depth... but there's a LOT of variability built into that interface, so having one that's truly damaging is difficult.

[ericjon262]

I wonder just how wide of a tolerance gm is working with on a flex plate. And how much of a contribution that makes when they break?

I don't know... but I'm just using it as a ring gear mount.
I've seen engine thrust bearings damaged by the torque converter ballooning from high temperatures... The worst adverse effect I've seen on flexplates is cracking around the converter bolt holes.

My concern is for mostly selfish reasons

(Not my photo)
7FB3DD06-C9D6-47FB-A274-AC54C50E5207.jpeg


Ballooning is more of a charge pressure issue

It's also worth mentioning that Will's flexplate will only be under significant load while starting, unlike an automatic, where the plate is driving the torque converter, and taking the full load of the engine. On Will's car, the flexplate is just sandwiched between the flywheel and crank so he has a means of starting the car.

[The Dark Side of Will]

It's also worth mentioning that Will's flexplate will only be under significant load while starting, unlike an automatic, where the plate is driving the torque converter, and taking the full load of the engine. On Will's car, the flexplate is just sandwiched between the flywheel and crank so he has a means of starting the car.

Correct that it's only there to start the engine... I wish I didn't have to carry around that much weight and MOI for limited use.
The highest load case should be spinning up to 8500 RPM and back down, but it won't see that for a while.

[Honest Don]

I get that Will isn't using one in a traditional sense. Even if only for reference, I should try and measure mine when I swap converters.

[The Dark Side of Will]

WOOOOOooOO00OOOooT!

ARP wants the flywheel bolts lubricated with assembly lube under the heads, but also to have blue Loctite on the threads. Of course you can't get assembly lube on the threads, or that will screw up the Loctite, so you have to be a bit... careful.
Laid out the flywheel & flexplate for goo application per ARP's instructions... assembly lube under the heads in this photo



Now with Loctite applied



From there I just picked up the block the "assembly" was sitting on and pushed it up against the engine while holding the parts so they don't fall and using my 3rd and 4th hands to get the bolts started.
But here they are, "installed for flight"



I let the Loctite cure overnight, then sprayed the face down with brake cleaner and then isopropyl alcohol, trying to wash the assembly lube out of the bolt head interface, so that centrifugal force doesn't flow it out into my clutch friction interfaces. That of course damaged the paint, so I won't post pics of that.

And here's the flight install of the clutch, although not nearly as permanent as the flight install of the flywheel & flexplate.
The aforementioned installation tool worked great. I put a little more time into cleaning out the pilot bore in the crank, which still had a little scunge from the balance job inside it.
Damn, I finally have a clutch!



Shot to verify which direction I installed the disks that turned out unexpectedly artsy



The tips of the bolts are a smidge proud of the top of the clutch, but based on my measurements last week, this should be ok.



I got the engine back on the stand and used a 1/2" round file to perform the singular block mod required by this swap:



And here's another shot on the engine stand before I put it away for the week. Yes, I bag it to keep it clean.



Here's a little dorking around with the clutch alignment tool.
Still reminds me of something, but I can't think of what...
Not sure if these come through with sound. Hmmm...

https://i.imgur.com/mSV1DTl.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/9jE7KDN.mp4

[Shaun41178(2)]

So it fits. So drilling that flywheel to a 60 degree crank pattern is all thats needed.

That and your tob?

[The Dark Side of Will]

So it fits. So drilling that flywheel to a 60 degree crank pattern is all thats needed.

That and your tob?

If you can find a flexplate that will fit and clear the flywheel... that's where I lucked out with the Caddy flexplate.
I can make one from flat HSLA, but didn't have to this time, so I haven't sourced the flat material, although I have the ring gear.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Well obviously the cheapest and easiest route would be a factory 60 degree flexplate

[The Dark Side of Will]

Well obviously the cheapest and easiest route would be a factory 60 degree flexplate

Of course. There are a LOT of different V6/60 flexplates, so you may find one that works. Check Pioneer's catalog. I'll have to find one for a 3900 swap I'm cooking up, assuming this clutch turns out to be remotely streetable

[pmbrunelle]

Loctite 243 is "oil-tolerant", BTW.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Loctite 243 is "oil-tolerant", BTW.

I think this is the product I was using: https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/per ... /7160064-p

Basically... it's a glue and needs a clean surface to produce the best results.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I played in the less sexy side of hot-rodding last weekend... pulling old dirty components out of old high mileage cars in order to clean them up.

This is why we do those things, though; Factory epoxy coating had failed in a couple of spots, hidden by foam insulation:



These are the '85-'86 heater tubes that I installed in my '87 car because they work better with the Northstar than the '87-'88 heater tubes.



All four heater & A/C tubes:
I've been using a rattle can epoxy paint on the A/C tubes. While it's very resistant chemically, it chips easily. That's not really good for something that's going under a car, so I'm going to strip/blast the epoxy off and do clear POR-15 on all four.
I'd *LOVE* to anodize them, but I don't think it's practical.



Here are the '87-'88 fuel tank expansion volume vent tubes... I pulled them out to sand and paint as well. The bottom one is from the fuel tank to the expansion tank. The top one is from the expansion tank back across the engine bay to the charcoal canister. Ackshully... Once I remove the battery tray and switch to a compact battery, I can move the charcoal canister over to the right side of the engine bay and save the weight of these lines reaching from the right side of the car to the left just to deliver VOCs for combustion. Weight reduction is a game of ounces, not pounds.

How do I go about having bent tubes digitized? It would be fun to have these reproduced in stainless for a little deep engine bay bling.



And here's the expansion tank... Looking up in front of the right rear wheel house, with the plastic wheel well liner on the right



I also spent a couple of minutes with the last ICM baseplate in GM's inventory:

Coil mounting plate, right position (unlikely):



Coil mounting plate, left position (likely):



Now I need to get the correct LS coils and figure out how to mount them. If feasible, I want to reuse the Northstar coil harnesses... I *think* the car versions of the LS coils use the same connectors, but I need to spend time with photos to make sure.
There are six pairs of holes at the top/bottom edges of the plate visible. The middle pair in each trio is a simple pierced hole that's flat on the back. the other four pairs are pushed through--not sure what the correct terminology is for this process--to thicken the material around the hole, making it suitable to tapping or threading a screw into. These are the mounting holes for the original waste spark coils. I'll probably use them for LS coils once I figure out what kind of additional bracketry I'll need to package things elegantly.

[ericjon262]

Picture isn't perfect, but provides some view of the connectors.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Picture isn't perfect, but provides some view of the connectors.

Awesome! Thanks! Do you know where this came from?

The D581 looks promising because of its form factor.
The D580 with the high voltage terminal and electrical connector on the same side looks even more promising.

Having the electrical connector and terminal on opposite sides going opposite directions, as most of them have, makes packaging 8 of them on my ICM baseplate difficult.

The Holley has that problem as well, but I'd be able to re-use the plug wires I have if I went with that option.

Of course NONE of them just bolt to a flat surface. Lol.

[ericjon262]

Picture isn't perfect, but provides some view of the connectors.

Awesome! Thanks! Do you know where this came from?

The D581 looks promising because of its form factor.
The D580 with the high voltage terminal and electrical connector on the same side looks even more promising.

Having the electrical connector and terminal on opposite sides going opposite directions, as most of them have, makes packaging 8 of them on my ICM baseplate difficult.

The Holley has that problem as well, but I'd be able to re-use the plug wires I have if I went with that option.

Of course NONE of them just bolt to a flat surface. Lol.

It came from a Google search I did a while back, I needed to ID the coils on my car. Will the 2006+ coils not work on the early valve cover? The holley coil looks the same as the amp EFI IGN1+ coil, may be able to find the same coil for less money elsewhere.

Also note, the holley is a 5 wire coil, all the others are a 4 wire.

[The Dark Side of Will]

It came from a Google search I did a while back, I needed to ID the coils on my car. Will the 2006+ coils not work on the early valve cover? The holley coil looks the same as the amp EFI IGN1+ coil, may be able to find the same coil for less money elsewhere.

Also note, the holley is a 5 wire coil, all the others are a 4 wire.

Tried the '06 coil pack on my '99- heads... Both coil packs are the same... there's no left or right.

Doesn't fit this way



Doesn't fit this way



After some quick work with the band saw



Then I found that... Oooops... the coils are at least 1/2" too short to reach the plugs even when they're not on their mounting plate. I guess GM tightened up the packaging envelope for the '06 cam covers significantly vs older ones and was able to use shorter coils.

Coil plan B: See if Magnecore will send me a set of wires with the Northstar plug boots but unterminated on the other ends... Then I'll set up LS coils into packs per bank like FieroGuru did and then terminate the wires appropriately for the mounting locations of the coils.

Coil plan C: Re-use my current complete Magnecore wire set by assembling 8 LS coils into a coil pack resembling the '93-'99 waste spark coil pack. I'm not wild about this as it looks more cluttered than the other options, but beggars can't be choosers.

The '06 coils are too short to reach down to the plugs on the early heads. I need to take some measurements on one of my plug wires so see what I'd need in a COP coil.

[ericjon262]

Possible option, atlas 4200 or high feature coils may fit. Pick one of each up at the junkyard and see?

[pmbrunelle]

Probably you could bring a plug wire to the junkyard, and start pulling COP coils from various DOHC cars until you find one that matches.

Also, if you're willing to add welded bushings or similar to adapt the valve covers to the COP coils, that might open some doors.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Why do all that when I can look at RockAuto and the Holley catalog?
The Atlas 4200 looks too short. The HFV6 coils look very similar to the '06+ Northstar coils, but hard to tell the length from the photo.
I really just need to start with a measurement.

[ericjon262]

Why do all that when I can look at RockAuto and the Holley catalog?
The Atlas 4200 looks too short. The HFV6 coils look very similar to the '06+ Northstar coils, but hard to tell the length from the photo.
I really just need to start with a measurement.

If I find myself at the junkyard anytime soon, I'll take a look at what I can find.