High Feature V6 Swap

[draven]

Right now just using the green tip out of the box..

Acetone... check

I'm using the recommended settings on top of the unit for 1/8" aluminum plate practice coupons..

[Honest Don]

Right now just using the green tip out of the box..

Acetone... check

I'm using the recommended settings on top of the unit for 1/8" aluminum plate practice coupons..

The green works but it’s a little frustrating to use, especially if you’re new.


https://www.amazon.com/Lanthanated-Weld ... 39&sr=8-50

If you sharpen the whole box beforehand, you’re less tempted to try and keep going after dipping the tip.

[draven]

I'm using a 1/4" aluminum plate as a welding table/surface, any ground problems with that?

[Honest Don]

I'm using a 1/4" aluminum plate as a welding table/surface, any ground problems with that?

Electrically it should be fine, but it’ll act as something of a heatsink.

[draven]

Lanthanated tips ordered...

I was having issues with my arc wandering between the two plates, not pooling both, and then porosity would kick in and ruined the weld all with being pretty clean near perfect fitup.

[Honest Don]

Yeah, the scattering is a pain with the green for me as well. I’ve read that it works better on a transformer type machine.

[NoMad]

Not being able to adjust the frequency on the Eastwood unit would be damn frustrating trying to go to lap joints. I found lowering the frequency and running a little more tungsten stick out worked great to control the heat and get an even burn in on the plates. Someone more experienced will need to comment on achieving similar results without a frequency adjustment.

[Honest Don]

Not being able to adjust the frequency on the Eastwood unit would be damn frustrating trying to go to lap joints. I found lowering the frequency and running a little more tungsten stick out worked great to control the heat and get an even burn in on the plates. Someone more experienced will need to comment on achieving similar results without a frequency adjustment.

Lap joints are likely the best and easiest he can start with.

I’ve never used a variable-frequency TIG, but I hear they’re nice. 60Hz gets the job done though. I don’t really have any lap examples on my phone, but here’s a little variety that I’ve done with my Eastwood:

Unknown extruded

4A960F5D-74FE-4D67-9B52-4D6BF8FDF435.jpeg (59.84 KiB) Viewed 7586 times

Diecast repair

A572B309-5103-4C77-B668-534807D5BECB.jpeg (132.98 KiB) Viewed 7586 times

3DE5A1BB-2373-4AD6-9C19-C7625ECB98FD.jpeg (91.49 KiB) Viewed 7586 times

Tube to cast

807FC136-220D-40FF-BE01-E44993D0B7AB.jpeg (133.53 KiB) Viewed 7586 times

Apologies if I’m taking the thread too far astray.

[draven]

Slightly modified cradle back from powder coating (satin black)

Custom engine/transmission mounts cleaned, flash rusted, hit with POR15 then top coated with chassis black

New Saab TOB installed and primed in rebuilt F40 with SPEC spacer installed

Proper depth 10.9 flanged bolts for all engine/transmission mounts

....but for the f$#@!ing life of me I can't get the input shaft to seat in the clutch to bolt the F40 up to the block... clutch alignment tool used, etc..

(FYI, SAAB transmission, SAAB clutch from SPEC stage 3+)

I've aligned and installed probably 5-6 transverse setups before, some a small pain other a bit more (fieros, cavliers, mazdas)

This is the first I've installed with a internal hydraulic TOB. Could the TOB at full extension with spacer being primed and plugged be preventing the inputshaft splines from engaging the clutch splines due to it's inability to compress back on the input shaft and impacting the pressure plate springs?

Any other ideas?

[Shaun41178(2)]

You said you used a clutch alignment tool. I am assuming it's one for a fiero? Or something similar like a cavalier? Or did you use the one spec provided to match an f40?

Perhaps the clutch you got is not correct spline? A test fit sliding just the clutch onto the input shaft may be in order.

If it slides on, then your alignment is off when trying to make the block and trans

[The Dark Side of Will]

I had a similar problem when trying assemble the Eagle powertrain here: https://www.realfierotech.com/viewtopic ... 24#p156924

The extender spring in the clutch cylinder acting through the mechanical advantage of the throw out arm was enough, in conjunction with friction and the other vagueries of installing a transmission, to make it impossible to get the transmission to seat.

That spring in the HTOB may be the culprit. I think they ship the HTOBs with plastic straps holding them compressed. The plastic straps break with the first pedal press and you're off to the races. You may be able to get some zip ties to serve the same purpose.

[NoMad]

If you want a second set of eyes, hands and a brain on this just let me know when to head your way.

[draven]

You said you used a clutch alignment tool. I am assuming it's one for a fiero? Or something similar like a cavalier? Or did you use the one spec provided to match an f40?

Perhaps the clutch you got is not correct spline? A test fit sliding just the clutch onto the input shaft may be in order.

If it slides on, then your alignment is off when trying to make the block and trans

It was a 30spline by 1" for the saab setup.. which is effectively what I'm using all the way through... Hi feature v6(same as saab 2.8T) with saab F40

I had a similar problem when trying assemble the Eagle powertrain here: https://www.realfierotech.com/viewtopic ... 24#p156924

The extender spring in the clutch cylinder acting through the mechanical advantage of the throw out arm was enough, in conjunction with friction and the other vagueries of installing a transmission, to make it impossible to get the transmission to seat.

That spring in the HTOB may be the culprit. I think they ship the HTOBs with plastic straps holding them compressed. The plastic straps break with the first pedal press and you're off to the races. You may be able to get some zip ties to serve the same purpose.

As I wrote it out earlier I think that is indeed the problem.. I primed the HTOB and inserted a cap/stopper in the line on the outside of the transmission to maintain the "prime". That plus the sprin there is zero compressibility on the bearing around the input shaft... I'll drain it tonight and see if that makes the difference..

If you want a second set of eyes, hands and a brain on this just let me know when to head your way.

Of course brother, but didn't want to bug you with what "seemed" like such a menial task.. plus I didn't get to it till about 9pm last night...

[The Dark Side of Will]

You said you used a clutch alignment tool. I am assuming it's one for a fiero? Or something similar like a cavalier? Or did you use the one spec provided to match an f40?

Perhaps the clutch you got is not correct spline? A test fit sliding just the clutch onto the input shaft may be in order.

If it slides on, then your alignment is off when trying to make the block and trans

It was a 30spline by 1" for the saab setup.. which is effectively what I'm using all the way through... Hi feature v6(same as saab 2.8T) with saab F40

If you remove the HTOB and it goes together, then obvi the HTOB is the issue.
Have you actually test fit the clutch disk on the input shaft? If the manufacturer assembled the disk with the wrong hub--it's happened!--then that would also prevent it from fitting.

Can you get long 12x1.75 bolts and chop the heads off in order to have alignment studs? Install the studs in the top bellhousing bolts and hang the transmission on the studs to evaluate fit. Although it's usually a big no-no, once you've verified the issue is the HTOB, you can draw the transmission into place with the bellhousing bolts

[draven]

If you remove the HTOB and it goes together, then obvi the HTOB is the issue.
Have you actually test fit the clutch disk on the input shaft? If the manufacturer assembled the disk with the wrong hub--it's happened!--then that would also prevent it from fitting.

Can you get long 12x1.75 bolts and chop the heads off in order to have alignment studs? Install the studs in the top bellhousing bolts and hang the transmission on the studs to evaluate fit. Although it's usually a big no-no, once you've verified the issue is the HTOB, you can draw the transmission into place with the bellhousing bolts

I've got a spare OEM C/P/F setup from saab 2.8T I sent to RAM clutches to evaluate that twin disc design they had to back out of due to lack of input shaft depth... I'll cross reference the alignment tool (which is actually the one I used for my Mazda 6s) 30 by 1" against the OEM clutch plate... and then run the OEM disc onto the input shaft for verification..

I was thinking the same thing regarding the studs.. I have a 48" run of metric 10.9 threaded rod with the same diameter/pitch needed that I was going to use for the mr2 electric hydraulic power steering unit... I can always buy more threaded rod if it comes to that...

[ericjon262]

you said you primed/bled the HTOB, did you leave it compressed? does the fluid have a path out of the HTOB? if not, then it probably won't compress d/t the fluid in it. FWIW, the F23 quick disconnect for the clutch line (I assume F40 is similar) is designed to hold fluid in on both sides to minimize the required bleeding during a clutch job. if the bleeder/clutch line is removed from the trans, the fluid will have nowhere to go.

Why do you need a spacer? have you verified that your spacer isn't the problem?

[The Dark Side of Will]

It was a 30spline by 1" for the saab setup.. which is effectively what I'm using all the way through... Hi feature v6(same as saab 2.8T) with saab F40

Ditto what Eric said... if it's all stock, why would you need the spacer you mentioned?

As I wrote it out earlier I think that is indeed the problem.. I primed the HTOB and inserted a cap/stopper in the line on the outside of the transmission to maintain the "prime". That plus the sprin there is zero compressibility on the bearing around the input shaft... I'll drain it tonight and see if that makes the difference..

If fluid is in the HTOB and the HTOB line is capped, then it won't compress...

I guess I either missed or didn't really read this post at the time.

[draven]

you said you primed/bled the HTOB, did you leave it compressed? does the fluid have a path out of the HTOB? if not, then it probably won't compress d/t the fluid in it. FWIW, the F23 quick disconnect for the clutch line (I assume F40 is similar) is designed to hold fluid in on both sides to minimize the required bleeding during a clutch job. if the bleeder/clutch line is removed from the trans, the fluid will have nowhere to go.

Why do you need a spacer? have you verified that your spacer isn't the problem?

SPEC ships a spacer with their SAAB 9-3 2.8T c/f/p kit... I assume its to make up for the loss of thickness of the flywheel as compared to the OEM dual mass flywheel.

I'll be compressing and attempting to mount this evening..

[draven]

Got trans and engine mated up last weekend. Did ultimately drain the HTOB and create two studs out of metric threaded rod. Those along with the alignment pins I was able to pull the two together, turning the engine over occasionally as I went to make sure the input shaft and clutch were mated.

Using Dorman 10.9 zinc chromate flanged bolts.. Does anyone have any knowledge Dorman bolts? Pro? Con?





Next step is to partially install cradle and test clutch system for engagement / disengagement.

[pmbrunelle]

Using Dorman 10.9 zinc chromate flanged bolts.. Does anyone have any knowledge Dorman bolts? Pro? Con?

Zinc with chromate conversion coating stays rust-free longer than black oxide.

The zinc plating process can cause hydrogen embrittlement of the bolt, but any good bolt maker will bake the bolts to drive out the hydrogen.

There is a standardized USCAR test for bolts (tension for some amount of time) to ensure that they have not be affected by hydrogen embrittlement.

Bolts are a commodity item, generally considered interchangeable.

Do you question whether Dorman 10.9 bolts really have about 1000 MPa of tensile strength? What is your doubt?

I have used Dorman a few times on my car project; they seem like normal commodity bolts.

I believe that Dorman offers flange bolts per JIS and DIN standards. Both work, but you may wish to stick with DIN for a Fiero. With DIN, the wrench size for an M8 bolt is 13 mm. With JIS, the wrench size for M8 is 12 mm. JIS is good for more compact situations, but when doing general mechanic work, it can throw off your rhythm when you are expecting DIN hex sizes.

If you want out-of-the-ordinary finishing, bling, or strength, that's when you go to ARP.