Stock engines vs fiero installations

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:52 pm

Put on your benchracing cap please. No posts without it on. and I WILL CHECK!

Couple general questions about how the power of an engine would increase if it were installed into a fiero.

First off, we don't have power steering. How much hp do those pumps draw?

Secondly, we have 1/2 the exhaust length that any other car would have, maybe less. Since less length means less restriction (like blowing through a long vs a short straw), I think we'd gain a bit of power there as well.

What do you think? Do we have 10hp on a front transverse grocery getter drivetrain? (assuming everything else is the same

S8n · Post by **S8n** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:10 pm

Maybe 5 hp or so without power steering. THe exhaust on the otherhand, no much if anything. The reason is because of the bends we have to have. One 90 degree turn is as much resitriction as 8-10 feet of straight exhaust, so I've been told.

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:12 pm

On a dB for dB comparison, that might be the case, but most Fiero installations are considerably LOUDER (less restrictive) than their stock counterparts. I know my N* is a hell of a lot louder in the Fiero than any I've heard in Caddies.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:43 pm

whipped wrote:Put on your benchracing cap please. No posts without it on. and I WILL CHECK!

Couple general questions about how the power of an engine would increase if it were installed into a fiero.

First off, we don't have power steering. How much hp do those pumps draw?

Secondly, we have 1/2 the exhaust length that any other car would have, maybe less. Since less length means less restriction (like blowing through a long vs a short straw), I think we'd gain a bit of power there as well.

What do you think? Do we have 10hp on a front transverse grocery getter drivetrain? (assuming everything else is the same

If you route the exhaust out directly to the back side instead of the wussy "Fiero-style", yes. Also need to avoid any Ts and too many sharp bends. I have a T in my exhaust but I wont know how much a different it makes until I replace it with a Y over winter break. My 3.4 DOHC is ridiculously loud. I haven't heard a system with glasspacks in a W-body though.

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:38 pm

Short, oversize and mandrel bent. 2.5" exhaust for each bank, should be a good flowing exhaust system.

No ps or a/c pullies to spin. Heck, only an altenator and a waterpump, both driven by separate belts

I've heard at max rpm a ps pump can sap as much as 10hp. I imagine a 3800sc has alot of paracitic loss from its 10+ pullies the motor has to turn.

With a tune, my exhaust, 3.5" mandrel bent intake with K&N and few accessories I hope to be 280-290 at the wheels. Maybe 310-315 crank hp, which I don't think is out of the question. Next winter I'd like to get headers made with a short exhaust system using only bullets and some chrfab cams and springs. I would like 350whp.

donk_316 · Post by **donk_316** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:43 pm

MY dohc has just waterpump and alt...Turbo...no exhaust...all the goodies...And it will be dyno'd. Im looking for 320ish at the wheels on 12-14psi

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:28 pm

My DOHC has an alternator. That's it. Oh, and some rediculously ported/polished/reformed heads, an EWP, aluminum flywheel, reground cams, acoustically tuned independent throttle bodies, tuned equal length headers, 3" exhaust, and maybe a few other things. I think it is good for 350whp on that, but if not, it is turbo ready.

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:09 pm

crzyone wrote:No ps or a/c pullies to spin. Heck, only an altenator and a waterpump, both driven by separate belts

That's a nice bracket you got there. Is that a Caddy piece?
Something else looks familiar about that setup. :thumbleft: Don't forget the grooved tensioner.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:17 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Don't forget the grooved tensioner.

eh?

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:22 pm

With that belt routing, he's going to need a grooved tensioner pulley.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:24 pm

Well I guess that depends on what your definition of "need" is...

I went the same routing, and the belt's stiff enough not to go flying off or anything. Unless you're worried about flattening the ridges or something...

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:46 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:With that belt routing, he's going to need a grooved tensioner pulley.

Yes Will please expand. My 3.4 will be also have the issue of the belt's rigged side on the flat tensioner. Is this is a serious enough issue that I need to get a grooved pulley? I didn't think so, but I honestly have no clue. I was gonna leave it until it brok3.

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:38 am

If the bracket you are speaking of is that big hunk of aluminum hanging off the motor, it is a stock unit. There were a few of those for the stock mounting of the motor.

I haven't seen a 2000+ N* in a caddy, but I don't think there is a dogbone mount? Atleast none that came with my motor.

I'm going to run the motor with a flat pully just to see what happens, the tensioner is easy to remove from in the car, and I actually installed the belt when the motor was in the car to see how bad it was. Its a beautiful setup.

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:40 am

aaron wrote:My DOHC has an alternator. That's it. Oh, and some rediculously ported/polished/reformed heads, an EWP, aluminum flywheel, reground cams, acoustically tuned independent throttle bodies, tuned equal length headers, 3" exhaust, and maybe a few other things. I think it is good for 350whp on that, but if not, it is turbo ready.

This must be a dream motor. 350whp might be alittle far fetched in NA form, unless you plan on spinning it to very high rpm.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:06 am

crzyone wrote:
aaron wrote:My DOHC has an alternator. That's it. Oh, and some rediculously ported/polished/reformed heads, an EWP, aluminum flywheel, reground cams, acoustically tuned independent throttle bodies, tuned equal length headers, 3" exhaust, and maybe a few other things. I think it is good for 350whp on that, but if not, it is turbo ready.

This must be a dream motor. 350whp might be alittle far fetched in NA form, unless you plan on spinning it to very high rpm.

whipped wrote:Put on your benchracing cap please. No posts without it on. and I WILL CHECK!

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:20 am

Snap. Caught by the bench racing police.

Ok, if thats the case...

chrfab's wild cams, springs, pistons and rods. Full port job. Long tube headers.

500hp NA. Throw a 200 shot on there for good measure.

OR. GT42 turbo, PWR Barrel intercooler, chrfab's timing tool, pistons and rods. 500hp. Have a high octane mode for 700hp.

The Dark Side of Will · Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:46 am

whipped wrote:Unless you're worried about flattening the ridges or something...

Pretty much. I would expect the ridges to wear rapidly.

crzyone wrote:If the bracket you are speaking of is that big hunk of aluminum hanging off the motor, it is a stock unit. There were a few of those for the stock mounting of the motor.

I haven't seen a 2000+ N* in a caddy, but I don't think there is a dogbone mount? Atleast none that came with my motor.

I'm going to run the motor with a flat pully just to see what happens, the tensioner is easy to remove from in the car, and I actually installed the belt when the motor was in the car to see how bad it was. Its a beautiful setup.

Yeah, that was the bracket to which I was referring. I know that the older engines have two dogbones. I would be surprised if the Y2K enignes didn't The mounting points were changed for Y2K or thereabouts, but the longitudinal span between the forward and rear mounts was not increased, so there would be no reduction of the need for dogbones.

Yeah, that tensioner location works pretty well. It will work better for you than for me because you don't have AC. I have high RPM belt slippage issues because of insufficient crank pulley wrap. I'm going to have to re-engineer that when I put the engine back together.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:16 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote: Pretty much. I would expect the ridges to wear rapidly.

it's probably why it chirps a little bit too. add it to the to do list.

DreX · Post by **DreX** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:20 pm

Hi Im new here.

I might have to add, there is something else than just numbers. I found that even with a pretty much stock swaped engine it seems a lot faster in a Fiero than they usually is. I will try to explain my self the best I can.

I have the feeling that my car isnt all that fast or powerfull but when I race other cars they seems to feel slower. Basically in 2nd gear the look like if they went in reverse instead of keeping up. But inside the Fiero doenst look that fast. Is like for that kind of pull does not feel like I cant move from the seat due the G's. Feels almost normal pull from any other car, just see the car besides you like going in reverse. My bro noticed the same with his moded 2.8.

I can say that all ppl I raced they understimate the Fiero. Certenly they thought wrong. I even raced a Grand National with a mean v8 and huge MT. I was scared to lose but the Fiero never let me down. In sec gear was the same as all others it fall behind, he couldnt recover from there. And we did it twice from 35mph roll. After the race he didnt look at me when I waited for him. LOL

So far I have been pretty sucessfull, undefeated.
Grang National- v8 moded
2005 Mustang Mach1
350z
s2000
2G eclipse turbo
3G eclipse v6
3 mustangs gts including 5.0
4 civics si turbo
tiburon v6
and waht ever i forgot LOL

Just some observevations.

DreX

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:22 pm

And what motor do you have?

Real Fiero Tech

Stock engines vs fiero installations

Stock engines vs fiero installations

Re: Stock engines vs fiero installations