If you had a crate engine... and oil pump question

[donk_316]

Would you bother opening it up to install ARP Main Studs?

Here is my situation, I bought all the bits and pieces to rebuild a 96 dohc bottom end. But I ended up buying a crate engine instead of rebuilding the broken one.

I have the:
Oil pan gasket
ARP Studs
.25mm Bearings (useless now)
New Oil Pump (Could easily replace the factory bolt with a ARP Stud kit)

Also, what do you think of modifying one of the oil pumps according to the 60 degree V6 Manual or leave it alone?

I also seriously think increasing the oil pan capacity might be a good idea.

[Kohburn]

can't hurt.. as long as you don't FK up the install

[Series8217]

I would not install ARP main studs without line boring the mains. Since that requires complete disassembly.. I wouldn't do it to a crate motor.

If the ARP main studs don't actually require a line bore, they aren't doing anything for you! What's the point if there's no extra clamping force?
Note that the tension of the oil pump mount bolt also distorts that main cap. Even replacing that with one that gives you more clamping force will require a line bore. You'd have to do it all at once..

Increasing oil capacity is an excellent idea. I don't see the need to modify the oil pump though.

[MNFatz]

I always crack'em open (well, all three of them I've owned in my life)

I check the mains and rods for clearance and generally scope things out. make sure the oil pump is right, etc.

ll pull the valve covers and check the valve lash, look for anything suspicious, put in return screens in the oil drainbacks, etc.

[DreX]

As Series8217 said, there is no gain by installing them. Put them in a safe place for when you rebuild the engine for more power they will do its job. :thumbleft:

DreX

[Aaron]

I would never upgrade the DOHC oil pump. It has proven time and time again to flow too much, especially at higher RPM.

I also would not open up your block just for ARP studs. If I was rebuilding a block I'd definately use them, but not with a crate motor.

[Shaun41178(2)]

replace the crate pump with the new pump you bought.

And before you put the new pump in, take it apart and blueprint it.

[Aaron]

replace the crate pump with the new pump you bought.

And before you put the new pump in, take it apart and blueprint it.

I hope you aren't being serious. The crate motor has a new pump...

Why take the lower end apart if you don't need to? We all know the lower end of the DOHC is not that weak (bearings excluded), and I can say from experience that I love my crate engine. Smoothest 3.4 I've ever driven, and put down more hp/tq on the dyno than any other stock 3.4 ever dynoed. The lower end has proven itself to 7600rpm and 400hp on seperate occasions, there is no need to risk screwing something up just to put parts that aren't needed in. The problem with the bearings is the oil pump, but it isn't that it does not flow enough.

[Shaun41178(2)]

please in detail aaron tell me what is wrong with blueprinting an oil pump? its the heart of the motor. If it quits then everything else quits too. You only have to pull the oil pan to do this. NOT HARD. And he has a gasket for it anyways. Its extra insurance.

[Aaron]

please in detail aaron tell me what is wrong with blueprinting an oil pump? its the heart of the motor. If it quits then everything else quits too. You only have to pull the oil pan to do this. NOT HARD. And he has a gasket for it anyways. Its extra insurance.

Extra insurance for something that is completely unneccesary. Now he has to pull the pan off, risking the lower end, risking oil leaks, and a lot more, all for something that won't do anything.

If you can show me a single case of a DOHC oil pump failing, even on pushrod motors, do so. But that you can't do. We have thousands of online DOHCs, many with 100k+, without any oiling issues besides bearing problems because the pump works too good as it is.

[BigRedDeckSpoiler]

...But I ended up buying a crate engine...

Where did you find the crate engine?
I saw the one on ebay that you were bidding on, but I thought someone else won it.
Did you buy one of the others he had?

[donk_316]

...But I ended up buying a crate engine...

Where did you find the crate engine?
I saw the one on ebay that you were bidding on, but I thought someone else won it.
Did you buy one of the others he had?

No. I ended up finding a 96 crate engine off a dude on the east coast of the USA

[donk_316]

Yeah I was thinking of just pulling the pump and giving it a "60 degree v6 bible blue print" job.

I mean, i have all this shit i just bought...
gaskets,
bearings,
oil pump,
complete timing belt and pulley kit,
ARP main studs...

Now its all kinda useless.

[Aaron]

Yeah I was thinking of just pulling the pump and giving it a "60 degree v6 bible blue print" job.

It wouldn't hurt, but I don't see the benefit.

Now if you plan on spending some reasonable amounts of time from 6000-7000rpm (and even higher), you do need to do things to the lower end in order to maximize life of the bearings. Here are some ideas that Steven and I came up with. I think they are all good and should make for a pretty much bulletproof lower end to 7500rpm and 400hp.

-Redesigned and enlarged oil pan. I will be doing this to my DOHC, adding about 1-2 quarts of oil capacity. This helps becuase as the RPMs rise, and the pump flows more and more, it will not "dry out" the lower end of the block, thus the bearings still get oiled thoroughly.

-King makes main bearings that are fully grooved 360* on the 3rd, meaning you get full oiling to #4 and 5. This in itself could fix everything. Steven is using these, and says they are really good. I'll be getting these if/when I rebuild my motor, but I will not tear into a crate motor just to replace the factory bearings with these.

-Lastly, also Steven's idea, port/polish the oil drainbacks in the block and heads. According to him, the factory has casting flaws which limit oil drainback and could also be the cuase of excessive oil buildup on the top end. I think this would be a good idea, but only in conjunction with the first point, more capacity. I doubt he will have lower end issues, but with the improved drainback, I'd be worried about getting sufficient oiling to the heads. I doubt it would be enough to cause any harm, but it is worth thinking about. This is definately not a good idea on a crate motor as it involves complete dissassembly and cleaning. This should only be done on a buildup or rebuild.

-Lastly, dry sump. Dry sump gives large capacity, and doesn't need a large oil pan. But this comes with a cost, and is not practical for most street cars.

[Shaun41178(2)]

It wouldn't hurt, but I don't see the benefit.

You wouldn't.

Look Adriann its not necessary but its good insurance. do it if you want to but you dont' have to. its your motor after all. You could always ebay that stuff. Are those main studs long enough you think to also get a windage tray on there?

I am done with this one.

[Aaron]

It isn't good insurance. It is tearing into a brand new motor with no benefit. I could see doing that when rebuilding/building a motor, but on a crate motor it is just risking the bottom end. I would agree if we had problems witht he oil pumps, but the biggest problem with them is that they flow TOO MUCH.

Stock the motors are good for just as long as any other motor, so long as you keep it under 6500rpm except for rare occasions (There's little need to go to 7 anyways), and keep it topped to the limit with synthetic.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Would you bother opening it up to install ARP Main Studs?

Here is my situation, I bought all the bits and pieces to rebuild a 96 dohc bottom end. But I ended up buying a crate engine instead of rebuilding the broken one.

I have the:
Oil pan gasket
ARP Studs
.25mm Bearings (useless now)
New Oil Pump (Could easily replace the factory bolt with a ARP Stud kit)

Also, what do you think of modifying one of the oil pumps according to the 60 degree V6 Manual or leave it alone?

I also seriously think increasing the oil pan capacity might be a good idea.

What are you going to be doing with the engine that makes you think you'd need anything more than stock until you have the opportunity (or maybe necessity) of doing a performance rebuild?

[The Dark Side of Will]

-Lastly, also Steven's idea, port/polish the oil drainbacks in the block and heads. According to him, the factory has casting flaws which limit oil drainback and could also be the cuase of excessive oil buildup on the top end. I think this would be a good idea, but only in conjunction with the first point, more capacity. I doubt he will have lower end issues, but with the improved drainback, I'd be worried about getting sufficient oiling to the heads. I doubt it would be enough to cause any harm, but it is worth thinking about. This is definately not a good idea on a crate motor as it involves complete dissassembly and cleaning. This should only be done on a buildup or rebuild.

I worked on the oil drainback system in the Northstar a little bit. Prolly won't help a lick for the way the car will be used, but it's peace of mind.

I'm really at a loss for why you think that improving oil drainback reduces oiling to the heads.

[Aaron]

What are you going to be doing with the engine that makes you think you'd need anything more than stock until you have the opportunity (or maybe necessity) of doing a performance rebuild?

My point EXACTLY. A stock motor is fine, just keep oil topped off with synthetic and limit the 7k runs, and it'll be bulletproof.

[donk_316]

Where the fuck have you guys been? This engine isnt going to be used as a stock engine.

Hello?? TURBO??