Building my 3.4

[Golden86]

ok, Im going to be building up my 3.4, it will be a reman short block. This will also be used with a Getreg. these are the mods that will go into it...

H272 cam
heads are ported, polished, and gasket matched with a 5 angle
ported exhast manifolds
borla exhaust
bored out throtle body
ported polished upper, middle, and lower intake
power pullie
possibly 19-21lb injectors
Darth burned chip

Now what do you think this will produce on the dyno? say 220-230 at the crank or so?

Are there any other things that I may have missed, or is there a better combo out there to give a little more power? I will be stick with the stock pistons that come with the short block, and I will not be decking/shaving the heads to incrase C/R.

Also, I may want to throw a turbo on this in the future, I have heard that the H272 cam is not an ideal cam for a turbo aplication. I know its not the best cam for a turbo, but will it hurt performance if I do turbo the car? So, I know a lot of you have experience with boost, and the 3.4, what turbo should I be looking for if I want it to be streetable and push about 8 lbs with an IC?

Help me out peeps!

[ditch]

Those injectors are a bit big for a 3.4 NA, but with the chip maybe you'll be ok.

I bought a 3.4 from a friend in Chicago. It was built up as follows:

cam similar to the H272
ported/polished heads with 5 angle valve job
roller timing set, roller rockers
sprint exhaust manifolds
Holley 390CFM carbuerator, Edelbrock intake
Crane HI-6R ignition system, Crane coil
shaved heads to get ~9.5:1 compression

He was getting 223hp, 239tq at the flywheel. Your set-up is similar to mine so I would think your numbers will be too. I'm no expert, but your intake might be a bottleneck to the system.

I bolted it to my 5spd and it is a blast to drive. I still need to change a few things to squeeze out a bit more power: better exhaust system, smaller jets in the carb, (my goal is to get 300hp at flywheel when I install the nitrous). I'm heading down to IRP (Indianapolis Raceway Park) next Tuesday to see how it does in the quarter as it is now.

Dave

[Golden86]

I drove Daves car ( I guess thats who you are talking about in Chicago), it was nice, and I cant complain about the power, but the auto just killed it. Dave also took that car to the track, I believe he ran a 14.2, but that is with the auto, I cant see why you won't run in the mid- high 13's with a stick. well good luck at the track, and thanks for the reply.

[ditch]

I drove Daves car ( I guess thats who you are talking about in Chicago), it was nice, and I cant complain about the power, but the auto just killed it. Dave also took that car to the track, I believe he ran a 14.2, but that is with the auto, I cant see why you won't run in the mid- high 13's with a stick. well good luck at the track, and thanks for the reply.

yep, that's him

This motor definitely likes the manual tranny. I don't know what to expect at the track mainly because it will be my first time ever doing this. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it though.

[Shaun41178(2)]

a lot will depend on just how well your heads are ported. Ported does not mean gasket match.

GEt flow numbers.

Will also depend on your intake porting. Your gasket matching wont' add much

I say with your listed mods I am going to guess like 180 hp or so.

your injector selection is too big. 17 lbers will be enough for an n/a applicatioon

[Jinxmutt]

21 are big. I am running 19 with an AFPR, turned down a bit..

[Shaun41178(2)]

Oh yea, if you plan to turbo it then get a cam fora turbo.

If youplan to be n/a you need to get a n/a cam

n/a cams will work with turbos but you will see more power with a turbo cam with a turbo then a n/a camgrind with a turbo.

So you have to choose now if its going to be turbo or not and build the engine for a turbo. Not build an engine and then later try and bolt stuff on. You need to know your final goal before selecting engine parts.

[eHoward]

Exactly.

So you have to choose now if its going to be turbo or not and build the engine for a turbo. Not build an engine and then later try and bolt stuff on. You need to know your final goal before selecting engine parts.

[Golden86]

ok, I do agree with choosing the right cam now. The heads will be done by the same guy who did Oreif's heads on his 3.4. I also may consider the new Truleo intake that guy is making, because from my understanding the stock fiero intake strangles the 3.4. One more question, I know the H272 is by no means the ideal turbo cam, but will it hurt perfomance any? The thing I am worried about is that once I build this 3.4, I might not get the power of it I want out of it, so the next viable power gain would be a turbo. I am not going to guarantee I am going to turbo this engine, but I would like to keep my options opened. thanks again.

[ditch]

I'm looking into a wet nitrous kit for my 3.4. For me it all depends on how you're going to drive it. If I was going to drive hard all the time I would probably swap on an intake and turbo it. I don't drive hard very often, so I figured it would be best to just install the N2O. This way I can have power on the rare occasion that I need it like when I go to the track (IRP) or race some highschool punk in his daddys Camaro, etc.

I'm pretty happy with the power of my 3.4, but it would be nice to have a "boost" when needed.

Dave

[Doug Chase]

Oh yea, if you plan to turbo it then get a cam fora turbo.

If youplan to be n/a you need to get a n/a cam

I dunno, cam/lifter sets aren't too expensive, just a lot of work to change.

If you decide later to add a turbo then you're already signing up for a decent amount more work and money. A new cam won't be a big deal on top of everything else required to do it right.

I would be more concerned with choosing the right compression ratio to optimize one or the other. This would be expensive and time consuming to change later.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I also may consider the new Truleo intake that guy is making, because from my understanding the stock fiero intake strangles the 3.4.

I think that intake is the biggest boon to 60 degree fuel injected performance since the introduction of fuel injection... Have you looked at the dyno graphs? It added about 50 HP over the stock Fiero intake at 6500 RPM on a mild 3.4. It did not lose any torque ANYWHERE in the curve.

[Shaun41178(2)]

50 hp but come on there was a tuning issue there with the stock intake. You have to remember they didnt' just swap the intake and redyno. They played with chips and chip tuning too to get more power. What they prob ended up doing is posting the results of the best numbers vs the stock numbers. If you are going to dyno something you do it one thing at a time. Not two and then claim one thing made a ton of power.

I mean at like 5k rpm it drops like 30 hp. No freaking way it would fall that hard. SOmething was wrong there like a misfire or it got super pig rich. I mean it drops straight down like they shut the car off.

I dropped like 30 hp at 6k rpm when I had my 19lb injectors in my 2.8 and stock chip. At 6k rpm I was at like 83 hp. Its at 110 with the stock injectors.

I want to say it was tested with 19 lb injectors too so it was running dog rich. it wasn't the stock intake that caused the hp to fall off that darn fast. Something else happened.

But I will say this. it is proven to add hp. But 50 hp no freaking way. I want to see someone else dyno it and I am sure it will be more around 15 hp or so at 6k rpm

I know Raydar said he was going to dyno it last week. Wonder if he did because I havent' seen the results. Most likely he never went which wouldnt' surprise me.

[Golden86]

That intake does sound promising, even if it only added 15hp, to me anything that can help the 60 degree v6 is worth it.

I heard N20, and I KNOW shaun knows a lot about it. So if I where to run my 3.4 as described, what kind of shot can I put on there safly. Like I said, this will not be ran at the track, just an every day driver to piss off the muscle car owners.

[The Dark Side of Will]

50 hp but come on there was a tuning issue there with the stock intake. You have to remember they didnt' just swap the intake and redyno. They played with chips and chip tuning too to get more power. What they prob ended up doing is posting the results of the best numbers vs the stock numbers. If you are going to dyno something you do it one thing at a time. Not two and then claim one thing made a ton of power.

I mean at like 5k rpm it drops like 30 hp. No freaking way it would fall that hard. SOmething was wrong there like a misfire or it got super pig rich. I mean it drops straight down like they shut the car off.

I dropped like 30 hp at 6k rpm when I had my 19lb injectors in my 2.8 and stock chip. At 6k rpm I was at like 83 hp. Its at 110 with the stock injectors.

I want to say it was tested with 19 lb injectors too so it was running dog rich. it wasn't the stock intake that caused the hp to fall off that darn fast. Something else happened.

But I will say this. it is proven to add hp. But 50 hp no freaking way. I want to see someone else dyno it and I am sure it will be more around 15 hp or so at 6k rpm

I know Raydar said he was going to dyno it last week. Wonder if he did because I havent' seen the results. Most likely he never went which wouldnt' surprise me.

It added 15 HP peak... It absolutely kills the stock intake beyond 6,000. How much pwer were you making at 6500? Did you even bother to spin that fast? Prolly not, because it's a waste of time with the stock intake.

[Shaun41178(2)]

I have spun it to 7k while racing but not on a dyno. 7k was pretty much accidental the few times I have done it

Once was when I was racing and wasn't watching the tach. And the others were misshifting while trying to powershift.

I have never blown an engine up on the bottle and I think one reason is because I dont' overspin it. On an 18 year old engine with mid 80's GM engine build tolerances, I dont' feel like grenading it.

I have a dyno here of a 3.4 that I will overlay onto the truleo dyno. This 3.4 was spun to 6400 rpm. So we will have a good comparison. As far as mods go this is what the guy told me...

"he engine has hyper pistons, forged rods, full
> > >roller
> > > > > > >rockers
> > > > > > > >ported TB, manifolds, blah blah."

Seems to me it has ported intakes and a DM tb. Maybe even ported exh manis As far as head work goes no clue and no idea on the cam either. BUt we can compare once I post the graphs to Mosh mans dyno and also on the truleo intake.

Now don't get me wrong. The intake does add power. BUt I dont' believe that its 50 hp at 6500 rpm. That would mean that the 3.4 woudl have to have like 50 hp at the wheels on a fiero intake at 6500 rpm. I dont' think thats right at all.

Post them up on thur.

[The Dark Side of Will]

That does look like a suspicious step in the stock dyno curve, but I don't think that, even with optimised chip, the stock intake will be even close at high RPM.

[Shaun41178(2)]

That does look like a suspicious step in the stock dyno curve, but I don't think that, even with optimised chip, the stock intake will be even close at high RPM.

yes that is very suspicious. Obviously somethng was wrong there.

Here is a pick of Paul Princes dyno. I mentioned the mods as best I could in my post above. I could email him and get exact mods if you guys want.

Pauls graph is the black line. As you can see its lower hp wise in the lower rpm band then Mosh's but as you can see up top it performs just as well. I mean going by Fagland logic, ported stockers plus a DM tb will also give a 50 hp gain over a stock 3.4 at 5500 rpm. Also you can see in the upper rpm the Truleo against pauls is very equal if not pauls being slightly more powerfulll. Hmmmmm






Here is the chart I used to Graphs Pauls numbers. He emailed these to me.

[Golden86]

Actually pauls chart look a bit smoother too, so whats with all the hype about this new intake. Couldnt I get the same, if not better, results from just doing a ported intake and TB? So is Mosh getting that extra HP from the Truleo intake, or other mods that are not listed?

[The Dark Side of Will]

I believe Mosh's results were with a stock Camaro cam. Without knowing the specs of the cam that was used for Paul's engine, we can't extrapolate any results beyond what the chart shows, which is that Mosh's graph has similar top end, but is stronger in mid-range and low-end. The area under the curve is greater any way you cut it.