Real tech discussion on design, fabrication, testing, development of custom or adapted parts for Pontiac Fieros. Not questions about the power a CAI will give.
TurboGT wrote:Here is a strong 3.1 turbo that was well built, but needs to be placed in a Fiero.
Put down 310 wheel hp on 7psi. He was running more that that (16 +) but did not get it on a dyno yet. He says any more boost than 7psi and the car will not hook up and is looking for a replacement chassis.
That's a 3100? I was thinking that was a 3400... oh well.
And here is a STOCK 3400 pushing 328HP/352TQ to the wheels with a remote mout turbo. This is more than TIMG (from 60*V6) was puting down with his DOHC but has a shit load less miles than he has. http://www.khturbo.net
Dyno vid http://www.khturbo.net/rmtz24/Z24DynoMovie.wmv
This guy also has alcohol injection in his setup. Did TimG have that?
Factory roller cams are typically great for boost. L98's can show 60% HP gain from 40% manifold pressure increase.
Kohburn wrote:310hp and 288ftlb -- interesting since the 3.4 turbo dynos i've seen have had peak torque significantly higher than HP - I attribute this currently to stock CAM's and cam timing as well as possibly the 91-95 intake..
It's a 3100 with a lot of cam... He's making peak power over 6,000 RPM and peak torque about 5K. TimG hit peak torque at 4500.
The Dark Side of Will wrote:
This guy also has alcohol injection in his setup. Did TimG have that?
I didnt notice that.
I do know that him and several other people have just recieved some forged lower compression wisco pistons. Mabe we will see what the 3400 is realy capable of.
I didn't realize I would start an arguement. I understand that it is hard to compare motor "x" to motor "z". So let me please clarify. I would like to tirbo my motor and run nitrous if that isn't fast enough.
I looked into the 3.8 and that seems like way too much fabrications for me. I currently have a 3.1 iron head and I swapped that in and everything went smooth for the most part. So that is the extent of my swaps except for my brother in laws 350 swap we are working on. It seems like the 3.4 tdc/dohc is a hard swap as well. i have nitrous now. I was thinking of building a 3.4 iron head with forged internals so that I could run like a 150 shot reliably and then in the future go turbo. I heard alot of good stuff about the various motors, but what are some facts not opinions?
goatnipples2002 wrote:I didn't realize I would start an arguement. I understand that it is hard to compare motor "x" to motor "z". So let me please clarify. I would like to tirbo my motor and run nitrous if that isn't fast enough.
I looked into the 3.8 and that seems like way too much fabrications for me. I currently have a 3.1 iron head and I swapped that in and everything went smooth for the most part. So that is the extent of my swaps except for my brother in laws 350 swap we are working on. It seems like the 3.4 tdc/dohc is a hard swap as well. i have nitrous now. I was thinking of building a 3.4 iron head with forged internals so that I could run like a 150 shot reliably and then in the future go turbo. I heard alot of good stuff about the various motors, but what are some facts not opinions?
Don't bother with the iron head motor. To make the iron head 60V6 perform as well as the later ones will end up costing you as much as the swap and your parts will be more expensive to replace when they break.
What equipment do you have access to? (welder, mill, drills, bandsaw, drill press, etc.)
Curtis Walker is not running a 3100. He is running a 3.1 but with a aftermarket mechanical roller cam in it. Nothing about it is close to a 3100 block. Like I said its a 3.1 block, with iron heads, roller cam, and a camaro upper intake. 300 whp on 7 psi is awesome. Puts all those otehr fiero owners on .nl to shame with their "adequete" turbo system. Meaning 86gt3.4dohc. TOOLE!
Shaun41178(2) wrote:Curtis Walker is not running a 3100. He is running a 3.1 but with a aftermarket mechanical roller cam in it. Nothing about it is close to a 3100 block. Like I said its a 3.1 block, with iron heads, roller cam, and a camaro upper intake. 300 whp on 7 psi is awesome.
Yeah but look at all the work done to get those numbers. Stick a cam in a 3100 and add the turbo stuff; DONE. Bottom end is stronger on the later 60V6 too (crossbolted 4 bolt mains, structural oil pan).
Do professionally ported and polished iron heads flow as well as the stock aluminum heads?
Series8217 wrote:
Yeah but look at all the work done to get those numbers. Stick a cam in a 3100 and add the turbo stuff; DONE. Bottom end is stronger on the later 60V6 too (crossbolted 4 bolt mains, structural oil pan).
Do professionally ported and polished iron heads flow as well as the stock aluminum heads?
I know what you are saying. But to get any sort of relaible numbers you need to do work like he did. He has forged pistons which help in the reliablility factor. Sure stock 3100 pistons might take that, but for how long? Also how much boost you going to reliably run on a stock bottom end 3X00? Prob limited to under 10 psi which of course limits overall hp. Curtis can prob make 400-450 whp on a 3.1 block with stock 2 bolt mains. ARe crossbolted 4 bolt mains necessary? No. Good idea for more then 400 hp? Yes. But his setup shows its not absolutely necessary for reliablity reasons.
Curtis' heads I think flowed 200 cfm intake at .5 lift. As good as stock al heads? Yes. Better then ported al heads? No. Could he make more with al heads? Sure he could. But his setup works and works very good. Hell he is capable of making more power then the car can handle.
Iron heads are perfectly capable of flowing enough air to make plenty of power. Curtis also chose a good cam, and a properly sized turbo to help make the power at a measly 7 psi. Show me one member on neverland making that sort of power on 7 psi on a 60 degree.
p8ntman442 wrote:he still has a heavy fucking block. FTW
Amen. I just wish GM could have fixed the 3.4 casting, redid it in aluminum and 2.8l, used the DOHC setup/heads, and then put it in a Fiero and other passenger cars, using a 3.4l for the cars possibly with a lower redline (Maybe 8k for the Fiero :thumbleft: ). Hell that motor could still be here today if its production costs weren't through the roof, and they manged to make it last (Better cam drive system, better bearing life, different casting).
What 60* blocks have the 4 bolt mains? How hard would they be to swap in as far as electronics and mounting. I was reading my chevy service power manual for the 60* v6. I was looking at running eagle SBC h beam rods, custom forged pistons.
What block/head combo would you guys suggest considering the ease of wiring and mounting and tranny compatibility. (I have a 3.65 4spd)
Honestly we just finished the 350 swap in my brothers formula I need to keep up or win. That is the fuel for my swap/build.
Wait you want to spend $400 for rods and $500 for pistons but you think my intake setup is too expensive? My setup on the bottle walked modded 350 3rd gens like they were standing still.
Do you have a job? How do you plan to pay for this bottom end build?
goatnipples2002 wrote:What 60* blocks have the 4 bolt mains? How hard would they be to swap in as far as electronics and mounting.
The 3100/3400 motors have the 4 bolt mains. You'll want to use the whole motor; the heads flow much better than the iron heads you have now, and they're of course lighter. They also support the much better intake manifolds from the 3400 and even the new 3500/3900 manifolds will work.
Just as easy to swap in as the 3.4 DOHC. Simple mount mods, adapt the wiring harnesses.
goatnipples2002 wrote:What 60* blocks have the 4 bolt mains? How hard would they be to swap in as far as electronics and mounting.
The 3100/3400 motors have the 4 bolt mains. You'll want to use the whole motor; the heads flow much better than the iron heads you have now, and they're of course lighter. They also support the much better intake manifolds from the 3400 and even the new 3500/3900 manifolds will work.
Just as easy to swap in as the 3.4 DOHC. Simple mount mods, adapt the wiring harnesses.
4 bolt mains? Sort of... I would call them cross bolted 2 bolt mains.
splayed 4 bolt mains are available from GMPP, but they don't take advantage of the cross bolts through the sides of the gen III cast aluminum oil pan.
Do the 3900 manifolds fit the early engines? I had thought that since the locations of the bores had changed that very little would interchange. Did they change the heads and keep the lower manifold the same or keep the heads the same and change the lower manifold?
The 06 3500's use the same block as the 3900, btw, but with 76mm stroke instead of 84mm.
