DOHC: 1, Isuzu: 0 -- Getrag swap!

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:24 am

Just a teaser for now.

Pics coming soon.

Fast88Fiero · Post by **Fast88Fiero** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:22 am

LOL! I'm on my 7th Isuzu trans. 2nd one for the 4.9, the rest were all with my old V6. :thumbleft:

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:32 am

Fast88Fiero wrote:LOL! I'm on my 7th Isuzu trans. 2nd one for the 4.9, the rest were all with my old V6. :thumbleft:

Pwnage! What were the symptoms of failure for yours? My case is totally intact, and the problem doesnt seem to be isolated to any one gear.. but there's definitely more than a bit crunchy in there. Seems to have happened gradually. Had a tapping noise earlier this week at low RPM in second gear, got louder today, and then, well, BOOM.

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:57 am

Sounds like the usual problem with the Isuzu, 2nd gear. Anyone with any kind of torque seems to break teeth off 2nd.

Only way I can think of to make the isuzu 2nd stronger is to cryotreat it and run an aluminum flywheel to reduce the shock loads between shifts. You have the right idea with wanting to go to a getrag.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:07 am

crzyone wrote:Sounds like the usual problem with the Isuzu, 2nd gear. Anyone with any kind of torque seems to break teeth off 2nd.

I'm not convinced 2nd gear was what broke first.. while the light clicking sound (actually sounded pretty much just like detonation) was happening at low RPM in second, there was none of the vibration associated with a missing tooth; it also didn't all go "bang" until after I blasted it in first up to redline and held it there with the tires spinning as I slid sideways down the road leaving my house. Actually, it still didn't go BANG for a little while after that, but it sure sounded bad when it finally did. Not saying you're not right, but judging by how it behaved when failing I'm not convinced that's what happened. I'll have more information tomorrow when its out of the car and split open.

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:02 am

Series8217 wrote:Had a tapping noise earlier this work at low RPM in second gear

That's your problem... you were running a DOHC at low RPM.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:47 pm

Series8217 wrote:My case is totally intact, and the problem doesnt seem to be isolated to any one gear.. but there's definitely more than a bit crunchy in there.

Series8217 wrote:I blasted it in first up to redline and held it there with the tires spinning as I slid sideways down the road leaving my house.

i'm placing my bet on the spider gears in the differential missing teeth

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:13 pm

I'm betting differential also. :thumbleft:

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:20 am

crzyone wrote:Sounds like the usual problem with the Isuzu, 2nd gear. Anyone with any kind of torque seems to break teeth off 2nd.

Only way I can think of to make the isuzu 2nd stronger is to cryotreat it and run an aluminum flywheel to reduce the shock loads between shifts. You have the right idea with wanting to go to a getrag.

Levi wins!!!

Second gear is busted. About half the teeth missing on one gear and the other (on the input shaft) is chudded on all the teeth.
Everything else in the transmission looks fine, but we weren't gentle taking it apart so I'm not just gonna stick a cryo-treated 2nd in there. It's the stupid gear ratios that really fuck with the 1st-2nd shift so I don't know if even an aluminum flywheel would help enough (though I would like one). I'm gonna try to find a FWD Getrag and make my own adapter kit (to make the Isuzu cables and whatnot work) though I do still need the Getrag tranny mounts..

I took pics, I'll upload them later tonight.

Fast88Fiero · Post by **Fast88Fiero** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:27 pm

Every Isuzu I have broken has been 2nd gear and went like yours. It's still cheaper for me to replace the isuzu than rebuild it or switch to a getrag. I think the most I've spent on an Isuzu is $75. I'm thinking next time I kill a trans I'll either switch to a Getrag or install a 6 speed.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:51 pm

Fast88Fiero wrote:Every Isuzu I have broken has been 2nd gear and went like yours. It's still cheaper for me to replace the isuzu than rebuild it or switch to a getrag. I think the most I've spent on an Isuzu is $75. I'm thinking next time I kill a trans I'll either switch to a Getrag or install a 6 speed.

Lets see... $50 * 7 = $350. Shoulda bought the Getrag the first time and you wouldn't have to spend the time (and other associated money for fluids and towing) replacing 7 of 'em. As much as I love the Isuzu, I'm gonna switch to a Getrag. I don't want to keep replacing transmissions. This one lasted less than 10,000 miles.. that's not the reliability I want.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:09 pm

Pablo takes advantage of my vast collection of precision tools to take the transmission apart:

Blown 2nd gear:

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:14 pm

Series8217 wrote:Pablo takes advantage of my vast collection of precision tools to take the transmission apart:

heh, at first I thought that was a plasma cutter

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:43 pm

Found a FWD Getrag 282 with 19x,xxx miles on it at the local self service salvage yard. Its like $85. Can't start the motor, but it shifts into gear fine and the diff works (though there is some slop in the spider gears; dunno how much is normal?). I am going to pick it up tomorrow morning and see what I can do with it.
What do I need to watch out for when getting a used FWD Getrag? Is there any part that breaks/wears out that is expensive to replace? I don't mind doing a partial rebuild (diff carrier bearings and synchros?) but I don't want to spend more than $400 on the transmission right now.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:56 pm

with 19k miles there shouldn't be too many things wrong with it. I have never taken one down so I am unsure what usually needs replacing or what wears out. I am pretty sure Will has some experience here however and hopefully he chimes in.

5 spd getrag for $85 FTMFW

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:24 pm

Series8217 wrote:
Levi wins!!!

Woo! What do I win!!!?!!?!??!?!?

Awesome deal on the getrag. I think for all the FWD getrag conversion parts cost me a couple hundred from Rodney, but it was worth it. FWD getrags are pretty easy to find as well, vs having a fiero getrag.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:19 pm

Series8217 wrote:19x,xxx miles on it

19k huh Shaun?

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:43 pm

Shaun41178(2) wrote:with 19k miles there shouldn't be too many things wrong with it. I have never taken one down so I am unsure what usually needs replacing or what wears out. I am pretty sure Will has some experience here however and hopefully he chimes in.

5 spd getrag for $85 FTMFW

No, thats 190-thousand something.

This is about the same price Will gets them for from the u-pull-it too. It actually comes out to $100 after the stoopid $15 core fee I forgot about, but I'll get my money back on that when I give them my blown Isuzu.

I picked up a 282 today, someone had left one out when they grabbed a Quad 4 HO out of a 1990 Calais, so I took the tranny since it was already out. $100. I know the bellhousing side is wrong, so I'll just split the case on it and on the one in the cavalier that I get tomorrow, take the best of both, use the good gear ratios, and have me a decent tranny! There's got to be some good parts between the two (the Calais had 150,000 on the clock). In any case if I do have to get rebuild parts it'll keep the price down since I have two trannys to pick parts out of.

Do I need to replace/reset anything to swap bellhousing sides? I'll probably replace the diff carrier bearings while its apart if that is a fairly easy job. I don't have any of the special tools at the moment. I don't have immediate access to a press since I'm at home, but I know of a shop that will help me out if that's necessary.
If anyone can provide links for Getrag overhaul/rebuild/etc info that'd be great. I'm just googling and searching Old Europe archives right now.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:26 pm

I got the Cavalier Z24 tranny. It too shifts into every gear and spins smoothly.
I have found out that I will have to reset the preload on the diff carrier bearings. I may as well replace those while I'm inside, right?
Is there a tool and shim kit I can get for setting the preload or can it be done with feeler gauges and some patience?

Fast88Fiero · Post by **Fast88Fiero** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:31 am

Series8217 wrote:
Fast88Fiero wrote:Every Isuzu I have broken has been 2nd gear and went like yours. It's still cheaper for me to replace the isuzu than rebuild it or switch to a getrag. I think the most I've spent on an Isuzu is $75. I'm thinking next time I kill a trans I'll either switch to a Getrag or install a 6 speed.
Lets see... $50 * 7 = $350. Shoulda bought the Getrag the first time and you wouldn't have to spend the time (and other associated money for fluids and towing) replacing 7 of 'em. As much as I love the Isuzu, I'm gonna switch to a Getrag. I don't want to keep replacing transmissions. This one lasted less than 10,000 miles.. that's not the reliability I want.

Tow bill, whats that? Just drive it making all the noise to where you're going to fix it.

Only takes about 4 hours to swap the trans at work (ASE Certified auto tech). A hoist and air tools are awesome. :thumbleft: I'm getting great reliablilty out of my current trans because I've been driving the BMW every day for the last month and a half.