Ogre, I never knew

[88GTneverfinsihed]

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum6/HTML/043764.html

Wow.

Maybe i missed something before but that was a shocker for me.

Wonder how many negs I'll pick up for calling him on it?

[Aaron]

I don't think you'll pick up very many negs at all, you were too nice about it.

That being said, his comment was highly ignorant. Gun Control DOES NOT mean no one can own guns. Gun Control is simply making sure that the right people own them. For example, as the constitution states, you have and always will have the right to bear arms. Unless the Government considers you mentally incapable, or a danger to society. Thus those under 21 can't own weapons, and those with criminal backgrounds and such. Also, it requires the government keeping tabs on who owns what guns. So again, not saying you can't, just making it safe for everyone else.

On this issue, I am highly liberal and am a backer of gun control.

[donk_316]

oh man.... go read YOUR constitution again...

It says nothing about every yahoo is allowed to carry a gun for the hell of it. Its an abused left over law from way back in the day.

originally it said something about every citizen has the right to bear arms against the attacking forces (english /french at the time)

[stimpy]

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum6/HTML/043764.html

Wow.

That was pretty random.

[z.MacK]

Whats the point? I have a 20 gauge, 9mm , and a sawed off 12 gauge pump.
Anyone without firepower is a dumbass.

[The Dark Side of Will]

oh man.... go read YOUR constitution again...

It says nothing about every yahoo is allowed to carry a gun for the hell of it. Its an abused left over law from way back in the day.

originally it said something about every citizen has the right to bear arms against the attacking forces (english /french at the time)

Actually, what it says is this: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/fac ... illeng.htm

Some people try to construe this as saying that only members of a regulated militia can bear arms, but that is not supportable from the wording. I read the intent as "Since armed men are the building blocks of a regulated militia, there shall be no shortage of armed men".

[Unsafe At Any Speed]

I don't think you'll pick up very many negs at all, you were too nice about it.

That being said, his comment was highly ignorant. Gun Control DOES NOT mean no one can own guns. Gun Control is simply making sure that the right people own them. For example, as the constitution states, you have and always will have the right to bear arms. Unless the Government considers you mentally incapable, or a danger to society. Thus those under 21 can't own weapons, and those with criminal backgrounds and such. Also, it requires the government keeping tabs on who owns what guns. So again, not saying you can't, just making it safe for everyone else.

On this issue, I am highly liberal and am a backer of gun control.

\

18 and up can own rifles, shotguns and such. You have to be 21 to own a handgun.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Gun control requires two hands.

[V8Mikie]

Some people try to construe this as saying that only members of a regulated militia can bear arms, but that is not supportable from the wording. I read the intent as "Since armed men are the building blocks of a regulated militia, there shall be no shortage of armed men".

Exactly. The founding fathers were smart enough to realize an armed society is essential in preserving liberty. If we are ever invaded or attacked there will be no shortage of weaponry for the normal citizen to defend themselves.

[MNFatz]

The founding fathers were smart enough to realize an armed society is essential in preserving liberty.

I'm against gun control, but do you really believe that?

If so, do you also believe it was a mistake to abolish slavery? Why do you think they bought and sold slaves themselves? Don't you think the founding fathers were smart enough to realize slavery is essential in preserving liberty?

[88GTneverfinsihed]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060820/pl_ ... e_usa_dc_1

"The top five states with the highest gun death rates are five states with incredibly weak gun laws," he said, listing Louisiana, Alabama, Alaska, New Mexico and Wyoming.

[whipped]

"Since September 11, much of the resources that were distributed to crime-fighting efforts in Boston and other major cities were redistributed to fight terrorism," said Jack Levin, director of the Brudnick Center on Violence and Conflict at Northeastern University.

and there's your answer.

[crzyone]

An armed society is a polite society.

[whipped]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060820/pl_ ... e_usa_dc_1

"The top five states with the highest gun death rates are five states with incredibly weak gun laws," he said, listing Louisiana, Alabama, Alaska, New Mexico and Wyoming.

PS- how many of those gun deaths were hunting related (a la Cheney)?

especially in alaska or wyoming, I mean come on...

[Kohburn]

did gun control help brittain? no they just have stabbings instead of shootings

[88GTneverfinsihed]

"Since September 11, much of the resources that were distributed to crime-fighting efforts in Boston and other major cities were redistributed to fight terrorism," said Jack Levin, director of the Brudnick Center on Violence and Conflict at Northeastern University.

and there's your answer.

I don't think Boston and the other major cities he was referring to fall within those states.

[crzyone]

Gun laws only work on law abiding citizens.

[whipped]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060820/pl_ ... e_usa_dc_1

"The top five states with the highest gun death rates are five states with incredibly weak gun laws," he said, listing Louisiana, Alabama, Alaska, New Mexico and Wyoming.

Well, I had to look this up...

Louisiana has 25.37 firearm deaths per 100,000.
Alabama has 20.05 firearm deaths per 100,000.
Alaska has 21.21 firearm deaths per 100,000.
New Mexico has 19.16 firearm deaths per 100,000.
Wyoming has 16.39 firearm deaths per 100,000.

All quite high, that's true.

But what about DC? Maybe they're not listed because they're technically not a state, but they have 60(!!) firearm deaths /100k. Anybody know the laws there?

And guess what? Of Alaska's 21 firearm deaths/100k, 15 of them were suicides. Only 4 were homicides 2 were unintentional deaths.

In Alabama and New Mexico, about 1/2 were suicides.

In Wyoming, 12 of the 16/100k were suicides. Yeah, they sure sound like a dangerous bunch. Don't want to live there. :uhoh:

Taken from here: http://www.vpc.org/Studies/whostate.htm

[88GTneverfinsihed]

The study you are citing is from 1996.

The article I quoted from was about the current wave of violence:

"In a shift from trends of the past decade, violent crime is on the rise, fueling criticism of Bush administration policies as a wave of murders and shootings hits smaller cities and states with little experience with serious urban violence."

Anyway, I didn't start this thread to debate gun control. I'm fine with responsable gun ownership, I just think we are flooded with them and they are too easy to get. It's usually easier to buy a gun than it is to get a drivers license.

[whipped]

Well if you have numbers from 2005, I'm all ears (eyes). :thumbleft: