BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:24 pm

Lookie here, I just found me a crack pipe. That's a felony for posession. Goodbye.

V8Mikie · Post by **V8Mikie** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:06 am

Chase Race wrote:
The Dark Side of Will wrote:"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security".
Good ol' Ben Franklin. I was hoping somebody would bring that up.

No, that quote has been attributed to Franklin by the anti-Bush whack jobs but it wasn't Franklin that said it. He said "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

Chase Race · Post by **Chase Race** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:19 pm

V8Mikie wrote:
Chase Race wrote:
The Dark Side of Will wrote:"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security".
Good ol' Ben Franklin. I was hoping somebody would bring that up.
No, that quote has been attributed to Franklin by the anti-Bush whack jobs but it wasn't Franklin that said it. He said "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

Thanks, I didn't know that.

Do you know if anybody actually said, "Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security," or is this just a twisted version of Franklin's original quote?

By the way, did anybody even watch the video?

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:21 pm

I did.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:41 pm

yep!

seemed like a how-to manual for stoner college kids vs the general population, but whatever...

:la:

V8Mikie · Post by **V8Mikie** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:45 pm

Chase Race wrote:
Thanks, I didn't know that.

Do you know if anybody actually said, "Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security," or is this just a twisted version of Franklin's original quote?

By the way, did anybody even watch the video?

I think it was written by a guy that wrote a book published by Franklin or something which is why people have incorrectly attributed it to him.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:11 pm

stimpy wrote:Lookie here, I just found me a crack pipe. That's a felony for posession. Goodbye.

Actually, that's jack shit. You can't be in possession unless you are possessing it. A crack pipe is mearly an ornament (Until of course it has crack in it).

Chase Race wrote: By the way, did anybody even watch the video?

Somehow I fought the ADD, and watched every second of it. Good points were made, it was a good video, but as said before, I'm not going to worry about whether my window is 2" down or all of the way down.

whipped wrote: seemed like a how-to manual for stoner college kids vs the general population, but whatever...

Agreed.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:25 pm

Aaron wrote: Actually, that's jack shit. You can't be in possession unless you are possessing it. A crack pipe is mearly an ornament (Until of course it has crack in it).

It's called paraphernalia, and yes, it's posession. Jail times varies state to state... from nothing but a fine to a year and a misdemeanor on your record. :thumbleft:

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:34 pm

whipped wrote: It's called paraphernalia, and yes, it's posession. Jail times varies state to state... from nothing but a fine to a year and a misdemeanor on your record. :thumbleft:

It is paraphernalia, but only if the officer can prove you were using it, or intending to use it, for illegal purposes. Like a baseball bat. Fully legal, until you smash someone's head in with it. It is NOT possession of a controlled substance however.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:13 pm

I swear officer, it's for tobacco!

Colorado law-

Paraphernalia possession or sale petty offense jailtime- none Fine- $100

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=452 ... =penalties

(d) ''Drug paraphernalia'' defined
The term ''drug paraphernalia'' means any equipment, product, or material of any kind which is primarily intended or designed for use in manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing, producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter. It includes items primarily intended or designed for use in ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing marijuana, (FOOTNOTE 1) cocaine, hashish, hashish oil, PCP, methamphetamine, or amphetamines into the human body

Which means... just about anything, including a straw from Mc Donalds could be considered "drug paraphernalia"

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:20 pm

Bongs are legal in Canada. Pot practically is as well.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:24 pm

First, that isn't felony possession liek Stimpy said.

Second, until the officer can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was to be used in illegal activities, it is legal to own. For example. If an officer were to find that in my dorm room, he would not be able to prove his case. He was unable to find ANY drugs in ANY amounts in my room. I live in the honors dorm, with a bunch of bible-banging virgins. I have no prior history of drug use, and have never tested positive for drug use. I do not have ANY alcohol in my room. I can account for every cent of my income. I've never even smoked a ciggarette. He would not be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this was paraphernalia for illegal drug use.

However, if this was found in another person's dorm. Say this person had been jailed for 2 years for the transportation and distribution of a controlled substance. Say they have notoriously tested positive in the majority of drug tests they've taken. Say they are about to fail out of school, and are unable to account for the majority of their income. Say they are on probation for driving under the unfluence of a controlled substance. And lastly, say the item was found with 4oz of crack cocaine. A person who falls in this category, or worse, is not at all uncommon. In this case, the officer would have no trouble whatsoever proving that the artsy glass decoration was intended for the use of illegal drugs. And that's if the item was clean, with no residue or prior use. If they find residue on it, the officer wouldn't even have to open his mouth in court, just show the report from the lab.

mysticfire6602 · Post by **mysticfire6602** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:39 pm

aaron, my dad used to sell pipes and all that shit in a store in a college town, and i can tell you with a professional backing me that if a cop even sees a decorative tobacco pipe on the floor of your car, completly clean never been used, you will still be busted for paraphernalia. it is ASSOCIATED with drugs, so what if it isnt FOR drugs, you WILL be arrested. dont give me a long comeback either. my dad works in this business and knows the laws in and out. they dont have to prove you used it. its in YOUR car. why the fuck else would it be in there?

"uh, officer, i swear it just materialized in here..."???????

product1620 · Post by **product1620** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:46 pm

mysticfire6602 wrote:aaron, my dad used to sell pipes and all that shit in a store in a college town, and i can tell you with a professional backing me that if a cop even sees a decorative tobacco pipe on the floor of your car, completly clean never been used, you will still be busted for paraphernalia. it is ASSOCIATED with drugs, so what if it isnt FOR drugs, you WILL be arrested. dont give me a long comeback either. my dad works in this business and knows the laws in and out. they dont have to prove you used it. its in YOUR car. why the fuck else would it be in there?

"uh, officer, i swear it just materialized in here..."???????

thats how it is in Charlotte, if they find it in your car its paraphenalia, but my question is, if its legal to sell these pipes for tobacco use, then how the fuck are people supposed to get them home, with out getting busted?

TurboGT · Post by **TurboGT** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:50 pm

whipped wrote: Colorado law-

Paraphernalia possession or sale petty offense jailtime- none Fine- $100

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=452 ... =penalties

I thought it was leagal in Co?????

mysticfire6602 · Post by **mysticfire6602** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:50 pm

product1620 wrote:
mysticfire6602 wrote:aaron, my dad used to sell pipes and all that shit in a store in a college town, and i can tell you with a professional backing me that if a cop even sees a decorative tobacco pipe on the floor of your car, completly clean never been used, you will still be busted for paraphernalia. it is ASSOCIATED with drugs, so what if it isnt FOR drugs, you WILL be arrested. dont give me a long comeback either. my dad works in this business and knows the laws in and out. they dont have to prove you used it. its in YOUR car. why the fuck else would it be in there?

"uh, officer, i swear it just materialized in here..."???????
thats how it is in Charlotte, if they find it in your car its paraphenalia, but my question is, if its legal to sell these pipes for tobacco use, then how the fuck are people supposed to get them home, with out getting busted?

depends on the cop and if you spit or swallow

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:18 pm

What about guns? They are used to seriously injure and kill people. So if I have one, I am automatically a murderer? Not so. Until i have used it in a crime, or it can be proved that I intend to use it in a crime, it is legal for me to own (Assuming I'm 21 and otherwise legally own it).

So tell me how the officer is going to prove that the pipe was being used, or intended to use, for illegal purposes? It is 100% legal to own one, and plant a rose plant in it, carry pocket change in it, or just ;eave it on the floor. Or to put a white powdery substance in, say, flour. Until it is used, or intended for use, of the inhalation of an illegal substance, it is not illegal, plain and simple.

mysticfire6602 · Post by **mysticfire6602** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:25 pm

are you telling me im wrong? ok, how many years of experience do you have selling these pipes? how many friends do you have in the local PD/court. dont divert the subject to guns. you can have a permit to carry one with you at all times. and you cant fill a gun with pot and smoke it now can you. we are talking about the overwhelming fact that people who have pipes in their cars 99% of the time smoke something illegal them. cops know it, i know it, you know it, everyone knows it. all you want to do is argue.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:36 pm

mysticfire6602 wrote:are you telling me im wrong? ok, how many years of experience do you have selling these pipes? how many friends do you have in the local PD/court. dont divert the subject to guns. you can have a permit to carry one with you at all times. and you cant fill a gun with pot and smoke it now can you.

Enough. And I have a lot of friends with the 4 local police agencies, and the court that oversees us. Wanna bet you can't smoke pot with a gun? If you can smoke pot with an aluminum can, you can smoke it with anything.

we are talking about the overwhelming fact that people who have pipes in their cars 99% of the time smoke something illegal them. cops know it, i know it, you know it, everyone knows it. all you want to do is argue.

I completely agree. But until it is PROVEN that the subject is NOT part of that 1%, he is innocent. What does the TV show "COPS" say before every episode?

mysticfire6602 · Post by **mysticfire6602** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:40 pm

im still right :bootyshake:

it doesnt matter if the law says "innocent until proven guilty," you still get arrested. its probable cause.