Wanting to go E85 compatible

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:36 pm

I am thinking about this. But also want to be able to run regular gas if I have to or mix and match the fuels.

Now I understand the ethonal eats up the rubber hoses. So what do the new cars come with to fight this? No rubber at all? Like a hard flexible plastic fuel line?

Can braided line withstand the E85? I am using mostly braided now for the flex lines but not hard lines. Stainless hard lines should be ok yes?

I am guessing a walbro 255 is E85 compatible?

I am not worried about the injector o rings as those are easy to replace if they go bad.

Running straight E85 probably wont' be possible hear in the Daytona area as I am unaware of any E85 stations, But I want to be ready when it comes to the area or Orlando

Blue Shift · Post by **Blue Shift** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:39 am

You can probably crank your boost/timing up on E85 eh?

I was looking at a 90's 3.1 flex fuel Lumina in the yard. It appeared to have a fuel sensor module of sorts to tell what it was that was going into the motor. Wonder if maybe you could make use of the whole fuel system and ECM from one? Otherwise you might have to burn all your gas, and refuel, and switch manually somehow.

You're running a turbo, right? If you were N/A, it seems like you could use a bunch of parts out of the flex fuel 3.1 car, and maybe tune it to work with the 3400 or whatever it is you're running. Sorry I don't know any specifics about the system, though.

[edit: to fix retard posting while half asleep mistake]

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:31 am

alltrbo runs E85 in his Talon. Since straight ethanol has a certain octane and octane is linear, you just calculate how high your octane goes when you add 85% ethanol to how much 93 or whatever is already in your tank, and adjust boost/timing accordingly. E85 also has a greater evaporative cooling effect than gasoline simply because there's more of it.

I'll make sure he sees this thread.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:17 am

you'll want to check your wideband also because the stoic is different. the paperwork mine came with listed the stoic air/fuel ratios for various fuels. you can tweek the narrowband output to trick the gm ecm into thinking its gasoline stoic.

thats if its far enough off to be concerned with.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:57 pm

I'm trying to dig up some tech papers from work. I'll forward you a copy if/when I get ahold of 'em.

S8n · Post by **S8n** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:27 pm

Stainless hard line most of the way in newer cars. I believe they are limited to either 6 or 12" of flex line in the entire fuel system due to gov't regs.

Forever-Fiero · Post by **Forever-Fiero** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:59 am

You need a Stainless tank made, all stainless line and all silicon O'rings.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:14 am

^^^ This is one thing I know for sure; The regular mild steel/lead alloy coating on the tank will decay fairly rapidly since ethanol soaks up water, and will allow the tank to rust from the inside.

That being said, I wonder if there are any coatings commercially available that could be used in the existing tank? :scratch:

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Well their aren't any E85 stations close to me right now but hopefully soon. If someone was smart they would open a station near Bithlo.

There might be a coating out there for the tank but many modern cars to my knowledge don't have stainless tanks, and people are using E85. Of course no long term studies have been done yet on this to show the effects as its all still too new.

I think Earls makes a flexible braided overlay line to handle methanol. That being said, that line could be used in place of the factory lines to handle the extra abuses of the E85.

I dont' really plan to run straight E85 in my car. it would end up being more like E50 or E70. I would just mix it in as E85 is 105 octane. So its pretty much just for the extra octane. And it wouldnt' be on a daily basis either. Just when/if I go racing. It would be normal 93 unleaded the rest of the time.

Stoic of alc is around 9.5:1 I think. Not sure about E85 though sicne there is still gasoline in it. And it woudl be even different still with a 50/50 mix. I would be easier tuning for lambda instead of usign my current gauge as its programmed for gas.

I have been doing some reading and a lot of hte import guys running E85 on big powered setups are able to turn up the timing to around 28 degrees advanced when running E85 and still get no detonation. Normally they run around 21 or so degrees. That extra timing translates into decent power numbers. Thats what I am looking for.