Now time to go take some courses, and begin to safely carry.
CCW Permit
Moderator: ericjon262
Wait, what?
You can get the permit first, THEN go learn how to safely handle a firearm?!? :scratch:
You, my friend, live in one fucked up country. :salute:
You can get the permit first, THEN go learn how to safely handle a firearm?!? :scratch:
You, my friend, live in one fucked up country. :salute:
"Oh, this is too good. She thinks you're a servant... Cause you're black! This is greatest moment in my miserable life... Sooo-ey! I LOVE RACISM!"
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DiggityBiggity
I've been shooting for years, and am plenty qualified. I, however, would personally feel MUCH safer and confident after taking a course. The courses are free, btw.Mach10 wrote:Wait, what?
You can get the permit first, THEN go learn how to safely handle a firearm?!? :scratch:
You, my friend, live in one fucked up country. :salute:
It's not necessarily a reflection on your abilities...
But that doesn't strike you as a little bit bass ackwards to issue a carry permit FIRST?
In Soviet Canada, Guns issues permits for carriers!
We have to do (and pass) a safety course FIRST before we can apply for a permit.
My only complaint is that it takes (is taking) too long.
I've got a clean record, no history of serious mental illness, and I aced both the written and practical safety courses. I understand the 2 week waiting period for purchasing your first rifle (hell, takes nearly that long to order nice one anyway)... What I DON'T understand is how I can get a driver's license in 45 minutes, but it's been (so far) 60 days for my long arm Posses/Acquire permit.
But that doesn't strike you as a little bit bass ackwards to issue a carry permit FIRST?
In Soviet Canada, Guns issues permits for carriers!
We have to do (and pass) a safety course FIRST before we can apply for a permit.
My only complaint is that it takes (is taking) too long.
I've got a clean record, no history of serious mental illness, and I aced both the written and practical safety courses. I understand the 2 week waiting period for purchasing your first rifle (hell, takes nearly that long to order nice one anyway)... What I DON'T understand is how I can get a driver's license in 45 minutes, but it's been (so far) 60 days for my long arm Posses/Acquire permit.
"Oh, this is too good. She thinks you're a servant... Cause you're black! This is greatest moment in my miserable life... Sooo-ey! I LOVE RACISM!"
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DiggityBiggity
Granted.
The problem isn't licensing which is something that the gun nuts (fuck the NRA right in it's redneck ear) and pro-control lobbyists totally miss.
It's the apparant availability. The less control you have on the sale, the more likely it is that "inventory errors" or "incomplete shipments" will pop up.
Guns used in crime are RARELY obtained legally.
The thing to note is that they are obtained ILLEGALLY through normal, legal channels; either by theft, fraud, or otherwise.
The problem isn't licensing which is something that the gun nuts (fuck the NRA right in it's redneck ear) and pro-control lobbyists totally miss.
It's the apparant availability. The less control you have on the sale, the more likely it is that "inventory errors" or "incomplete shipments" will pop up.
Guns used in crime are RARELY obtained legally.
The thing to note is that they are obtained ILLEGALLY through normal, legal channels; either by theft, fraud, or otherwise.
"Oh, this is too good. She thinks you're a servant... Cause you're black! This is greatest moment in my miserable life... Sooo-ey! I LOVE RACISM!"
Mach, I am not really sure what you are trying to say?
The NRA is against licensing, so what are they missing?
Guns will always be available, there are so many in this country you could outlaw the manufacturing tomorrow and they would still be rampant. Its not hard for any to buy a gun legally or illegally and that will never change no matter what changes will be made. Any changes dealing with purchases will just be a bigger burden on the law abiding citizen like myself. Like I said in the other thread (that I can't open) regarding the VT shooter, he bought his pistol a month ago so a waiting period would have changed nothing.
The NRA is against licensing, so what are they missing?
Guns will always be available, there are so many in this country you could outlaw the manufacturing tomorrow and they would still be rampant. Its not hard for any to buy a gun legally or illegally and that will never change no matter what changes will be made. Any changes dealing with purchases will just be a bigger burden on the law abiding citizen like myself. Like I said in the other thread (that I can't open) regarding the VT shooter, he bought his pistol a month ago so a waiting period would have changed nothing.
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DiggityBiggity
How do I phrase this... It seemed clear in my mind when I first typed it... but I'm having trouble articulating it... Here goes:
The NRA is anti-licensing, and spend all their energy fighting increased restrictions on weapons.
Pro-Control spends it's energy on trying to make purchasing weapons more beaurocratic with tighter state control on distribution.
You with me so far?
The NRA defends this as being an infringement on rights, and spouts off random bullshit about "outlaw guns and only outlaws have guns."
Pro-Control seems to think that longer waiting periods mean less criminal activity.
BOTH seem miss the point completely.
You're right; licensing DIRECTLY doesn't reduce crime rates, as criminals rarely use licensed weapons.
Licensing does--however--make store-owners more accountable when dealing in weapons. Less weapons "fall off the truck" so to speak, and people that DO purchase them (in theory) keep a tighter watch on them.
It's all about commercial availability. As the amount of weapons available for sale to the general public increases, the opportunities to let weapons "slip through the cracks" rises accordingly. For me, Gun Control isn't about making someone sit on their hands for a regulatory period.
EFFECTIVE Gun Control (for me) would be accountability for EVERY weapon, from the moment it's stamped out on the assembly line, to the moment that it is deactivated/destroyed.
The trick is that the average consumer needs to be responsible for ownership, NOT the beaurocratic nonsense that comes of this. Canada's Gun Registry was an attempt at this, but failed miserably due to piss-poor management and procedural flaws.
That said, I've got a REAL problem with hand-guns and assault weapons.It's ideological, and philosophical. Expect me to spit venom when talking about them. It's nothing personal, but I don't think that ANY civilian has any business owning either of them, for any reason. Maybe it's unreasonable, but there's absolutely nothing you can say or do to make me think otherwise.
For Long Arms (hunting rifles, shotguns etc) personally, I have no problem jumping through the hoops. MY complaint is that it's taking too long. By the time my permit comes in, I order my rifle, and it arrives, the season will nearly be open, and I'll have barely had time to practice with the damn thing and have the sights dialed in.
The NRA is anti-licensing, and spend all their energy fighting increased restrictions on weapons.
Pro-Control spends it's energy on trying to make purchasing weapons more beaurocratic with tighter state control on distribution.
You with me so far?
The NRA defends this as being an infringement on rights, and spouts off random bullshit about "outlaw guns and only outlaws have guns."
Pro-Control seems to think that longer waiting periods mean less criminal activity.
BOTH seem miss the point completely.
You're right; licensing DIRECTLY doesn't reduce crime rates, as criminals rarely use licensed weapons.
Licensing does--however--make store-owners more accountable when dealing in weapons. Less weapons "fall off the truck" so to speak, and people that DO purchase them (in theory) keep a tighter watch on them.
It's all about commercial availability. As the amount of weapons available for sale to the general public increases, the opportunities to let weapons "slip through the cracks" rises accordingly. For me, Gun Control isn't about making someone sit on their hands for a regulatory period.
EFFECTIVE Gun Control (for me) would be accountability for EVERY weapon, from the moment it's stamped out on the assembly line, to the moment that it is deactivated/destroyed.
The trick is that the average consumer needs to be responsible for ownership, NOT the beaurocratic nonsense that comes of this. Canada's Gun Registry was an attempt at this, but failed miserably due to piss-poor management and procedural flaws.
That said, I've got a REAL problem with hand-guns and assault weapons.It's ideological, and philosophical. Expect me to spit venom when talking about them. It's nothing personal, but I don't think that ANY civilian has any business owning either of them, for any reason. Maybe it's unreasonable, but there's absolutely nothing you can say or do to make me think otherwise.
For Long Arms (hunting rifles, shotguns etc) personally, I have no problem jumping through the hoops. MY complaint is that it's taking too long. By the time my permit comes in, I order my rifle, and it arrives, the season will nearly be open, and I'll have barely had time to practice with the damn thing and have the sights dialed in.
Last edited by Mach10 on Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Oh, this is too good. She thinks you're a servant... Cause you're black! This is greatest moment in my miserable life... Sooo-ey! I LOVE RACISM!"
I posted a link to an XLS of some stats that I collected and correlated. The forum then shat itself.DiggityBiggity wrote:Yeah... wtf? I thought I was the only one having problems... and I'm the freakin ADMIN?!V8Mikie wrote: Like I said in the other thread (that I can't open) regarding the VT shooter,
Sorry! :salute:
"Oh, this is too good. She thinks you're a servant... Cause you're black! This is greatest moment in my miserable life... Sooo-ey! I LOVE RACISM!"
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Boscolingus
- Posts: 448
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:38 pm
- Location: Valencia, CA
I found this topic interesting, so I followed through with printing out the 19-page affair for the California CCW, nearly half of it outlines who CANNOT qualify for a CCW. Now filling this out does have it's merits as I still have background investigation details still of file for the Sherrif's Academy. The only thing that I have to really think about is filling out the one page that wants a HUGE explaination of why I want a CCW, so let me ask this...
Why do I want a CCW?
It's not that I wouldnt mind one, It would in fact be quite inspiring and a nice message to the ego to have a piece strapped to my side or vest. My question is what is it that the state wants to hear from me when I give an explaination on why I want one
Why do I want a CCW?
It's not that I wouldnt mind one, It would in fact be quite inspiring and a nice message to the ego to have a piece strapped to my side or vest. My question is what is it that the state wants to hear from me when I give an explaination on why I want one
A.K.A. Chicken McNizzle on Old Europe
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DiggityBiggity
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Blue Shift
- Posts: 1062
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:28 am
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
Fuck yeah, Diggity! Looks like you have some freedoms that are only a pipe dream in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia. I am filled with envy. :thumbleft:
As for gun control, don't get me started. We live in a mostly disarmed (in theory) populace out here - you can't carry anything. Period. Well the official word is that you have to be approved to carry, and unless you're good friends or give money to the big shots who issue, it does not happen here. It's doing a great job of curtailing crime here in my city here - for example a teenage kid was shot 5 times in front of the local theater a mile from my house by another teenage kid. Yup. It's working. Let's think about this: the kid is too young to legally possess ANY gun, much less the 9mm pistol used. Repeat after me: when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Oh, also I woke up this morning to a middle school kid hurling a 4" cobblestone from my yard into the front of my house. This is the attitude these kids flooding in from Richmond and Oakland have, just to illustrate the problem.
I've known people on the street, and even in jail who were clearly not supposed to be anywhere near a gun, but told me all about the healthy collection they had, and how EASY it is to get ahold of one. Far, far easier than to do it legally. Some people I may or may not have known have chosen illegal guns out of pure convenience and as a spiteful gesture. Some of them had some fucking crazy ass shit, too. Street guns are cheap as dirt and available everywhere. All on the black market. No waiting period, no questions, nobody talks. And nobody can ever do anything about it. Think it's all coming from careless citizen owners? Hardly - some of these guns are stolen off of the PRODUCTION LINE, from LAW ENFORCEMENT, and ARMORIES. The government is telling us we're too big of a theft hazard, when they can't even hang on to their own weapons. I've never heard of "gunshow loopholes" sourcing any of these people. They're all stolen from somewhere, or from the era before registration was in effect.
Basically, the way I see it, I have the God given right to live and survive, and therefore am entitled to the last word when it comes to protecting myself from a violent aggressor. In my mindset, I always will fight back if possible, regardless of how armed. I just don't feel the need to willingly reduce my capabilities to appease some pants wetter sissy type who masturbates furiously to the thought of disarming everybody but the police. Let them come over here and live by example, then. Ever call the police lately? Top priority 911 calls usually result in 3 minute response times. And out here, a middle age man was stalking and sexually threatening my 17 year old sister. We called 911 and the dispatcher basically told us to toss the evidence out and ignore it. UNACCEPTABLE! We did eventually solve the problem ourselves with a large show of force, and a high speed pursuit across the city, and he never showed his face again. I consider anybody who asserts that I am somehow not of importance to be "allowed" the ultimate option in times of danger to be a threat. People that tell you that you're too stupid to use a gun to defend yourself, then suggest their alternative (police), is not only the gravest insult, but a threat in and of itself.
As for gun control, don't get me started. We live in a mostly disarmed (in theory) populace out here - you can't carry anything. Period. Well the official word is that you have to be approved to carry, and unless you're good friends or give money to the big shots who issue, it does not happen here. It's doing a great job of curtailing crime here in my city here - for example a teenage kid was shot 5 times in front of the local theater a mile from my house by another teenage kid. Yup. It's working. Let's think about this: the kid is too young to legally possess ANY gun, much less the 9mm pistol used. Repeat after me: when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Oh, also I woke up this morning to a middle school kid hurling a 4" cobblestone from my yard into the front of my house. This is the attitude these kids flooding in from Richmond and Oakland have, just to illustrate the problem.
I've known people on the street, and even in jail who were clearly not supposed to be anywhere near a gun, but told me all about the healthy collection they had, and how EASY it is to get ahold of one. Far, far easier than to do it legally. Some people I may or may not have known have chosen illegal guns out of pure convenience and as a spiteful gesture. Some of them had some fucking crazy ass shit, too. Street guns are cheap as dirt and available everywhere. All on the black market. No waiting period, no questions, nobody talks. And nobody can ever do anything about it. Think it's all coming from careless citizen owners? Hardly - some of these guns are stolen off of the PRODUCTION LINE, from LAW ENFORCEMENT, and ARMORIES. The government is telling us we're too big of a theft hazard, when they can't even hang on to their own weapons. I've never heard of "gunshow loopholes" sourcing any of these people. They're all stolen from somewhere, or from the era before registration was in effect.
Basically, the way I see it, I have the God given right to live and survive, and therefore am entitled to the last word when it comes to protecting myself from a violent aggressor. In my mindset, I always will fight back if possible, regardless of how armed. I just don't feel the need to willingly reduce my capabilities to appease some pants wetter sissy type who masturbates furiously to the thought of disarming everybody but the police. Let them come over here and live by example, then. Ever call the police lately? Top priority 911 calls usually result in 3 minute response times. And out here, a middle age man was stalking and sexually threatening my 17 year old sister. We called 911 and the dispatcher basically told us to toss the evidence out and ignore it. UNACCEPTABLE! We did eventually solve the problem ourselves with a large show of force, and a high speed pursuit across the city, and he never showed his face again. I consider anybody who asserts that I am somehow not of importance to be "allowed" the ultimate option in times of danger to be a threat. People that tell you that you're too stupid to use a gun to defend yourself, then suggest their alternative (police), is not only the gravest insult, but a threat in and of itself.
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DiggityBiggity
Mach, I have a kitchen full of assault knives.Mach10 wrote:
That said, I've got a REAL problem with hand-guns and assault weapons.It's ideological, and philosophical. Expect me to spit venom when talking about them. It's nothing personal, but I don't think that ANY civilian has any business owning either of them, for any reason. Maybe it's unreasonable, but there's absolutely nothing you can say or do to make me think otherwise.
Indy DOHC Turbo SD4.....someday.
Oh, and f*ck the envelope. (RFT Insurgent)
Oh, and f*ck the envelope. (RFT Insurgent)
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Fiero Savvy
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:11 pm
Hey Diggity...
A question on your permit.
I too have a Pennsylvania concealed carry permit.
Had it for 34 years now.
But I was told, that it was good for anywhere in PA EXCEPT bars and the entire Philly County.
And now, after a lengthy court battle in neighboring Jefferson County, not allowed in the court houses either.
Does Philly have a seperate permit?
A question on your permit.
I too have a Pennsylvania concealed carry permit.
Had it for 34 years now.
But I was told, that it was good for anywhere in PA EXCEPT bars and the entire Philly County.
And now, after a lengthy court battle in neighboring Jefferson County, not allowed in the court houses either.
Does Philly have a seperate permit?
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Boscolingus
- Posts: 448
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:38 pm
- Location: Valencia, CA
That kinda defeats the whole purpose!?!?!Fiero Savvy wrote:Hey Diggity...
A
But I was told, that it was good for anywhere in PA EXCEPT bars and the entire Philly County.
Does Philly have a seperate permit?
I completely agree as far as the reasoning to have protection as I had worked as a bouncer for nearly 5 years in some of the seediest clubs of L.A. ( the money was great, but most of all the schedule was bitchen ).
A.K.A. Chicken McNizzle on Old Europe