The Mule rides again (sort of) - pics.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Well I remember seeing an aluminium expander block...

Do you want to get the car running on the new engine with a minimum of other new features, unless they happen to be ready by firing-up time?

Yes, I designed a hot rod parking brake... but I don't think I can actually use it until I'm ready to install my fabricated knuckles. I need the car running before I put more effort into those.

The "new features" I'm looking at are related to engine management. I'll need to use a CANBus/GMLAN I/O gizmo to turn discrete wires into bus traffic and vice versa in order to enable A/C request, clutch switch, cruise control and maybe speedometer function.

What looks like a "new feature" to you? I kind of need to have a functional accessory drive in order to drive the car longer than it takes to run the battery down. There's hella wiring to do. I need to get more done on my wire list.

[pmbrunelle]

What looks like a "new feature" to you? I kind of need to have a functional accessory drive in order to drive the car longer than it takes to run the battery down. There's hella wiring to do. I need to get more done on my wire list.

By new features, I meant fancy brakes, knuckles... features that are progressing on the side, but that are not obligatory for the car to work.

[ericjon262]

which ECU are you going to use?

[The Dark Side of Will]

By new features, I meant fancy brakes, knuckles... features that are progressing on the side, but that are not obligatory for the car to work.

Ahh, yes. I definitely want to have the car driving and do incremental upgrades to those other systems.

which ECU are you going to use?

Looking at the '06 Cadillac ECU, actually... Sinister says there's a switch in the code for transmission type, and it includes manual transmission. We're going to see if it works. There are more difficult alternatives, but this unit is easiest since it's already set up for a Northstar.

We're getting a lot of different code components from various places, so it might not be so difficult to move everything over to a system with a native manual transmission option. I need to write that whole list down.

[ericjon262]

By new features, I meant fancy brakes, knuckles... features that are progressing on the side, but that are not obligatory for the car to work.

Ahh, yes. I definitely want to have the car driving and do incremental upgrades to those other systems.

which ECU are you going to use?

Looking at the '06 Cadillac ECU, actually... Sinister says there's a switch in the code for transmission type, and it includes manual transmission. We're going to see if it works. There are more difficult alternatives, but this unit is easiest since it's already set up for a Northstar.

We're getting a lot of different code components from various places, so it might not be so difficult to move everything over to a system with a native manual transmission option. I need to write that whole list down.

That's interesting that the caddie has a manual trans flag in the bin. I wonder how much of that has to do with GM making their engine management more universal in the later 2000's compared to the 90's. it really surprises me how many different PCM's are out there, as well as crank trigger patterns, and the fact that GM developed specific patterns for almost every engine line it had back in the 90's/early 2000's.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Yeah, that is interesting... But in flipping that switch, the computer then expects different inputs. Is it expecting a discrete clutch switch? A GMLan message about the clutch switch? Who knows? No one's ever done it.

It always blew my mind that GM reinvented the wheel as many times as it did. BMW went straight to the 58x trigger and stayed there for decades. I think they tried other things in very limited applications (N54 maybe?), but mostly stuck with 58x.

There really should just be ONE engine management software... for the whole company. The actual computational needs of running an engine are pretty modest. A whole lot of the software load is related to diagnostics and networking.

[ericjon262]

Yeah, that is interesting... But in flipping that switch, the computer then expects different inputs. Is it expecting a discrete clutch switch? A GMLan message about the clutch switch? Who knows? No one's ever done it.

It always blew my mind that GM reinvented the wheel as many times as it did. BMW went straight to the 58x trigger and stayed there for decades. I think they tried other things in very limited applications (N54 maybe?), but mostly stuck with 58x.

There really should just be ONE engine management software... for the whole company. The actual computational needs of running an engine are pretty modest. A whole lot of the software load is related to diagnostics and networking.

Which ECU is the Cadillac part? E67? I would start by looking to applications with the same ECU. I know the LZ9 E67 looks for a clutch pedal position sensor input, what it does with that I'm not sure. I can take a look at it as well and see what I can come up with.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Weekend before last, I did a smidge of checking on the accessory bracket. I need to take more measurements to complete the design.

My alternator mount hole is a little bit off.



A 0.005 feeler gauge stops here and doesn't go in from the other side, so that tells me about which direction I need to move the arc in the part.



I modified the oil filter adapter again, of course realizing the need for this mod AFTER I had it anodized.
I hooked up shop air to blow out the hole continuously during the milling & tapping operations to keep the inside of the part clean.



I had to set up some Rube Godlberg fixturing, including blocking off the block port in order to make sure all the compressed air went out the port I was machining instead of rushing by it, creating a venturi pump that pulled chips INTO the part.



Result:





The elbow is a 3/8 NPT male to 1/4 NPT female street el, which is the most compact arrangement possible. This particular part I had previously modified by running the pipe die a little further down it. This actually made it a little small for the size the oil filter adapter port ended up. I ordered another elbow, so theoretically the fresh elbow will work fine, as I appear to have plenty of clearance for the socket to install the Aurora oil pressure sender/switch.



Last weekend I did some leak-finding on my roof, and didn't get a lot done on the car.

I decided that I'm better off completing the first water manifold that I thought I ruined vs. making a multi-piece throttle adapter... So I did the first ops on that.



I still need to drill the hole in the upper radiator connection neck for the Mishimoto weld-on fill port... and order another fill port. The new thing I need to do is mill a pocket around the slot, then fit a lid for that slot, then have the lid welded into place. I also left one of the EGR valve mounting bolt holes, as it doubles as a support for the fuel rail where the fuel lines connect to the rail... probably useful to keep.

[ericjon262]

I like the idea of modifying the other manifold vs a huge TB spacer. I think you'll be happier with the outcome that way.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I like the idea of modifying the other manifold vs a huge TB spacer. I think you'll be happier with the outcome that way.

Pushing the throttle out 3" or more plus using the separate MAF would really eat into my space available for an intake tube.
And this way I get to make an even lighter water manifold.

[ericjon262]

I like the idea of modifying the other manifold vs a huge TB spacer. I think you'll be happier with the outcome that way.

Pushing the throttle out 3" or more plus using the separate MAF would really eat into my space available for an intake tube.
And this way I get to make an even lighter water manifold.

yeah, I like the thin adapter better for sure, it's a win on all counts without question IMO.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I put this together over the weekend:



After I took the photo, I turned it in one more revolution and got a bit more clearance, although it was getting pretty tight. The perfectionist in me wants to pull the adapter back off and run the tap in one more revolution. The asymmetry of the material that tap's cutting caused it to go in at a slight angle ("up" in this photo) which reduces the socket's clearance to the mount bracket. Because a pipe tap is tapered, you can straighten it out after it gets started crooked. Straightening the tap would both give a little more clearance and be slightly less ghetto. Turning it in one more rev is necessary to straighten it and would give yet more clearance. I'll figure that out later, as it's good enough right now.

End of the elbow still well clear of the oil passage



Add the water manifold gaskets in and these will line up.



Clearance around the throttle body



But not quite enough
At this "orthogonal" upside down attitude, the throttle bore doesn't quite match up to the manifold bore. I can turn it slightly so that the end of the motor housing AND the cap of the motor housing both make contact and it looks like its *almost* perfect. I'd have to take the manifold down another 0.050-0.100 and make the adapter at a slight angle. I'm not sure I *can* take the manifold down that far without opening both coolant passages and welding the whole thing back together.
...although it might not be that much more effort compared to what I'm doing now... might be worthwhile.



Wanted to have an accurate setup to spot face the bolt holes



And take this bolt boss down to the level of the lower ones. Originally there are three lengths of bolt used on the water manifold. 1x short, 4x medium, 3x long. I can take this long boss down to medium, then use a spacer on the short bolt location to bring it up to medium. Then I'd need 6x medium and 2x long bolts... KISS



Final setup for milling the slot to weld up



The slot at 0.580 x 6.285

[The Dark Side of Will]

Yeah, that is interesting... But in flipping that switch, the computer then expects different inputs. Is it expecting a discrete clutch switch? A GMLan message about the clutch switch? Who knows? No one's ever done it.

It always blew my mind that GM reinvented the wheel as many times as it did. BMW went straight to the 58x trigger and stayed there for decades. I think they tried other things in very limited applications (N54 maybe?), but mostly stuck with 58x.

There really should just be ONE engine management software... for the whole company. The actual computational needs of running an engine are pretty modest. A whole lot of the software load is related to diagnostics and networking.

Which ECU is the Cadillac part? E67? I would start by looking to applications with the same ECU. I know the LZ9 E67 looks for a clutch pedal position sensor input, what it does with that I'm not sure. I can take a look at it as well and see what I can come up with.

I'll check back through my LOONG email convo with Ryan and check.

This is what I'm tracking now for assembling the tune:

Base Calibration/OS: 2006 Northstar? 2006 Corvette?
Knock sensing: 2006 DTS L37 or LD8
Injectors: 2009 STS-V LC3
Coils: 2009 Corvette LS3
Throttle: 2009 Impala SS LS4
MAF: LQ4?
Per-Cylinder fuel trim: Shelby Series 1 (1998 Oldsmobile Shelby)
Spark: Modified Shelby calibration

If we're assembling this tune from all these pieces, what's really the advantage of starting with the Caddy computer, especially given the lack of knowledge surrounding using it with a manual transmission?
IIRC, '09 Vette is an application that Ryan floated as a potential base. I'll have to re-approach that with him since we've figured out all these different pieces to use to assemble the tune.

I ordered the D514A/12573190 coils yesterday, so they should be around to play with next weekend. I just need to assemble the ICT billet coil mount kits and drop then on top of the Caddy coil baseplate. If I can get everything to overlap, then I can just have that assembly welded next week and the coil pack is done.

[ericjon262]

there's two different LS4 throttles, one may fit better than the other, you're getting close!

[The Dark Side of Will]

there's two different LS4 throttles, one may fit better than the other, you're getting close!

I thought the only difference was the wire count?

[ericjon262]

there's two different LS4 throttles, one may fit better than the other, you're getting close!

I thought the only difference was the wire count?

Based on the pictures of your throttle I would say that the housing is also slightly different

[The Dark Side of Will]

I figured out the coil pack over the weekend, but I'm going to complain about the process anyway.

ICT Billet's LS coil mounting kit... Of course *AFTER* I see this, I check the applications list and ICT does not claim it fits 12573190 coils... despite the fact that those units were used on tens of millions of engines built from 2005-2019.



I fixed the end brackets



And then found a better way to mount the coils that eliminates use of the end brackets completely. The screws shown are just for trail fit and are not the final ones for this assembly.



The plate is the production Northstar coil pack base plate. It bolts directly to the rear bank cam cover with no extra effort. GM punched several holes in it when they stamped it, as you can see. Eight of those are "extruded holes" (e.g. https://www.unipunch.com/system-capabil ... ded-holes/ ) into which GM would have installed 5mm self-threading screws to secure the original coils and ICM. I drilled them out slightly and tapped them M6x1.0, cut four of the 12 spacers from the ICT kit in half, then dropped the coils in place as shown above. The four stacks of two coils each look like they'll be only a smidge bulkier than the original coils pack, all the high voltage terminals will be on one side and all the electrical terminals will be on the other side. Too easy.

I did some fitting and futzing with the throttle, but then decided I needed to have it no kidding in position before I finalize mods to the water manifold, so I got started on the throttle adapter. This has the right bolt patterns, but since I don't know how to cut a circle using the ProtoTrak, I am leaving that to the professionals.

[ericjon262]

I wish you had asked about cutting circles, we have a Proto Trak SMX at work, and I use it all the time, I bet I could have walked you through it.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Yeah, that is interesting... But in flipping that switch, the computer then expects different inputs. Is it expecting a discrete clutch switch? A GMLan message about the clutch switch? Who knows? No one's ever done it.

It always blew my mind that GM reinvented the wheel as many times as it did. BMW went straight to the 58x trigger and stayed there for decades. I think they tried other things in very limited applications (N54 maybe?), but mostly stuck with 58x.

There really should just be ONE engine management software... for the whole company. The actual computational needs of running an engine are pretty modest. A whole lot of the software load is related to diagnostics and networking.

Which ECU is the Cadillac part? E67? I would start by looking to applications with the same ECU. I know the LZ9 E67 looks for a clutch pedal position sensor input, what it does with that I'm not sure. I can take a look at it as well and see what I can come up with.

And yes, it's an E67. The Caddy E67 switched to manual transmission might end up with the same clutch inputs as the LZ9 E67 in factory manual transmission mode.

[ericjon262]

I looked at Chris' lz9 fiero a while back, and he had HPT open, so I took a look at the tunable parameters, and it had a ton of stuff not pertinent to a pushrod V6, coupling that with the fact that there is one VDF on tunercat obd2 that covers the v6, the n*, and a few other engines, I suspect a clutch pedal position sensor will be desired.

Chris is in the process of adding a clutch pedal position sensor to his car now. He has run without one for a while, with just a few minor quirks. I'll ask him to send me pictures of how he mounted it up.