more DOHC issues

slow'n'steady · Post by **slow'n'steady** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:22 am

i dont have any portions of harnesses left, Eric did all the wiring...

I'll check it out tomarow and let you'all know whats up... Would the other connector have anything to do with anything? i believe i actualy wiggle the one toward the passenger side of the car but i may be wrong it is pretty late at night here...

DANGIT i gotta run out and check which one i wiggled, ill BRB

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:32 am

You can't just wiggle it for the rest of the time, you need to fix it. Just buy a connector universal wiring connector from the junkyard. That's the only way to fix it dude.

slow'n'steady · Post by **slow'n'steady** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:33 am

OMFG!!! I fuckin hate that car!!!!!

Everytime i think i am getting somewhere it ends up being nothing...
I went out and tried to start it again and the mother fucker is doing the same old shit. No matter how much i wiggle either connector, it wont start up and run now. And for the record, earlier when i wiggled it and it started, that was the connector on the Passenger side of the car. I have no idea what is all in that harness but i dont think it has anything to do with the engine does it? Every day I consider parting it out more and more...

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:49 am

slow'n'steady wrote:OMFG!!! I fuckin hate that car!!!!!

Everytime i think i am getting somewhere it ends up being nothing...
I went out and tried to start it again and the mother fucker is doing the same old shit. No matter how much i wiggle either connector, it wont start up and run now. And for the record, earlier when i wiggled it and it started, that was the connector on the Passenger side of the car. I have no idea what is all in that harness but i dont think it has anything to do with the engine does it? Every day I consider parting it out more and more...

ANY connector on the harness has something to do with the engine...lol

Which connector was it? The one inside the car by where the ECU was, or the one by the sailpanel in the engine bay?

This was probably your problem, I experienced the same things in my Maroon car. Sometimes it would work fine, then the entire car would up and die and not restart. Then I'd wiggle it, and it'd fix it fine. Then it'd die out again and not restart, and I'd wiggle it, and nothing.

Redo that connector. My troubleshooting thread ran like 8 pages until I finally fixed it.

slow'n'steady · Post by **slow'n'steady** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:01 am

I'm completely fuckin retarded! The thing i wiggled wasnt even a connector or anything, it was just the "pass-thru" next to the C205... I guess i mighta been pushin on the C203 or something while leaning over and crap... i dunno

I'll try again tomarow when i am awake and can possibly not make myself look like a fuckin ass... The thing started, idled, had throttle response and sounded awesome for about 10-15 seconds, then i shut it off because i didnt wanna die (garage doors where all closed as it is past midnight here)

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:14 am

You probably hit the wires to the C203. Try wiggling that, it is the clear connector right below where the stock ECU is.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:56 am

Sounds like an electrical problem for sure.

I know you aren't going to like this, but you're getting to the point where you might want to consider ripping the whole wiring harness out of the car, and probing EACH line, and checking EVERY connection.

slow'n'steady · Post by **slow'n'steady** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:23 pm

Mach10 wrote:Sounds like an electrical problem for sure.

I know you aren't going to like this, but you're getting to the point where you might want to consider ripping the whole wiring harness out of the car, and probing EACH line, and checking EVERY connection.

yeah... wiring scares me!!!! That is the reason i paid Eric to do my hanress, i can wire stereos, houses, garages, and have even done a few car wiring harnesses but i REALLY do not enjoy it!! I will try to get some pics if i can, there are some wires that go nowhere and i am not sure if they are grounds or what...
Also i think i am going to clip the C203 out and solder the wires together, if that fixes the problem i will go buy a few connectors and something to make removal easier...

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:53 pm

I wouldn't clip out the connector. Clean it properly and pack with dielectric grease.

Inspect all the pins for burning/corrosion. Replace as needed.

Ground fault (i.e., grounds that aren't hooked up) can and do cause all the symptoms you've described.

Trace the "empty" wires back to the pin-grid. We can tell you where they are supposed to go from there.

slow'n'steady · Post by **slow'n'steady** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:34 pm

OK... the wire is "N" on the C203 connector, it is black with a white stripe...
Also while checking that out, i noticed that 7 of the wires going to the C203 connector where really fucked... Looked like a small animal chewed them up or something. As the wires are so close together im sure they where all rubbing and jumping signals and what not. I got all those fixed up and taped the crap out of the spots that where fixed. However now i dont have any batteries with anough charge to try and start it and my battery charger took a crap on me a couple weeks ago so...

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:10 pm

Well, Pin "N" is the AC clutch, so unless it's shorting against another wire to ground when you turn the AC on, I doubt it's causing you grief.

There's a couple of pins specifically that will cause you grief on the C203 and 500 cluster;

203:
B - Fuel pump 12v supply
C - SES lamp
G - VSS high
H - VSS ECM feed
J, K - Injector power feed
L - Fuel pump feed from relay
M - VSS Ground (to engine ground)
R - VSS low

500:
A2 - Engine ground
B3 - Gen. control/Bat lamp
C3 - Tach feed
E3 Ignition power 12v fused

Those are what I'd consider critical. Shorts or ground loops can cause all kinds of weirdness... Specifically, I'd look at pins J and K; if you have only one bank of injectors firing, it's not going to idle for shit. If the VSS is flaky, the ECM will think the car's moving at random which might bollocks things up.

Also make sure C3 is solid; low voltage will cause all kinds of havok; crap idle, no power, etc etc.

slow'n'steady · Post by **slow'n'steady** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:40 pm

OK... I took the ENTIRE wiring harness out of the car and will be striooing it down and checkin all the wires out. I mean i dont have a clue what is suppose to go where so if something is wrong i wont know but i figure i can check for chewed up or bare wires and bad connections and such...

I was amazed it only took me about 10 minutes to get the entire harness (including FI harness) out of the car. Took me like 3-4 hours on my RX7...

slow'n'steady · Post by **slow'n'steady** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:35 pm

OKELY DOKELY

I found a couple "iffy" wires on the main engine harness and a few on the injector harness as well. I got them all fixed up and taped the hell out of them, then recovered the entire harness with some wire loom.
The connector that is by the battery box (has a small/long bolt that holds the two connectors together) It is VERY dirty and packed full of gunk. The part that it connects to (stays in the engine bay) doesnt look very good either. I am gonna run to the store and snag some cleaner and die-electric grease and see what i can accomplish.

side problem: When i was tryin to take the wire off of the alternator (may be 8-10 gauge...?) the 10mm nut would not come off. The stud coming off of the alternator spins along with the nut. While tryin to hold that, the connector ( just a round piece with a hole in the middle) broke off. I know it wont effect it running and such but any ideas on fixing that? Not on how to fix the wire, but how to get the dang nut off of the stud...

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:45 pm

Mach10 wrote:I wouldn't clip out the connector. Clean it properly and pack with dielectric grease.

Inspect all the pins for burning/corrosion. Replace as needed.

This did nothing for the problems I had with my C203.

Mach10 wrote:Specifically, I'd look at pins J and K; if you have only one bank of injectors firing, it's not going to idle for shit.

All 6 injectors are wired in parallel, it doesn't fire one bank at a time, it fires all 6 injectors at a time.

slow'n'steady wrote:It is VERY dirty and packed full of gunk

The dirty part is bad, but it is supposed to be packed full of gunk. Specifically dioelectronicnuclear someotherbs grease.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:34 pm

Aaron wrote:
Mach10 wrote:I wouldn't clip out the connector. Clean it properly and pack with dielectric grease.

Inspect all the pins for burning/corrosion. Replace as needed.
This did nothing for the problems I had with my C203.

You didn't follow the "replace as needed" part of the directions.

Seriously, it's not the C203's fault. If you had taken an intelligent look at the pins, I'd bet that you could have re-bent the female ones and they'd have worked fine.

Blue Shift · Post by **Blue Shift** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:10 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Mach10 wrote:I wouldn't clip out the connector. Clean it properly and pack with dielectric grease.

Inspect all the pins for burning/corrosion. Replace as needed.
This did nothing for the problems I had with my C203.

You didn't follow the "replace as needed" part of the directions.

Seriously, it's not the C203's fault. If you had taken an intelligent look at the pins, I'd bet that you could have re-bent the female ones and they'd have worked fine.

That's what I did. I've also flowed a thin coat of solder on pins that were worn before on other shit, then packed with grease and pressed it together. Seems to work ok. My only wiring problem is the MAP sensor dropping out, and it's not the sensor. That, and the engine block, and entire rotating assembly is sitting on the floor of my living room...

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:17 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote: You didn't follow the "replace as needed" part of the directions.

Seriously, it's not the C203's fault. If you had taken an intelligent look at the pins, I'd bet that you could have re-bent the female ones and they'd have worked fine.

I replaced half of them with entirely new pins, and they still didn't work half the time.

Then I took an intelligent look, bent every pin to where it's contact was ensured, and it still had issues every now and then.

It's a terribly designed connector, that's all there is to it.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:23 am

Aaron wrote:
Mach10 wrote:Specifically, I'd look at pins J and K; if you have only one bank of injectors firing, it's not going to idle for shit.
All 6 injectors are wired in parallel, it doesn't fire one bank at a time, it fires all 6 injectors at a time.

You're right, I was still thinking of the 2.8 MPFI which runs the banks separately.

Still, if the feed that you're using for power is iffy... Doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens if the injectors aren't getting enough(or any) power.

As for the C203; it's a perfectly fine connector. Has to be clean, use new grease, and if you replace a male pin, you replace the female (best case) as well, or at the VERY least re-bend for positive contact.

Consistant problems are usually a sign of operator error. :la:

Slow + Steady:
Recrimping and taping it up is--at best--a temporary fix. Go baller and use an unsheilded metal crimp, a dab of solder, and some weather-proof shrink tubez.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:10 am

Mach10 wrote: Still, if the feed that you're using for power is iffy... Doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens if the injectors aren't getting enough(or any) power.

As for the C203; it's a perfectly fine connector. Has to be clean, use new grease, and if you replace a male pin, you replace the female (best case) as well, or at the VERY least re-bend for positive contact.

Consistant problems are usually a sign of operator error. :la:

Slow + Steady:
Recrimping and taping it up is--at best--a temporary fix. Go baller and use an unsheilded metal crimp, a dab of solder, and some weather-proof shrink tubez.

Exactly, that's what would happen everytime mine would crap out, the fuel pump and injectors would start skipping and it'd die.

Perfectly fine connector, that's why so many of us have had these problems? Perfectly fine connectors shouldn't have these issues, anytime, grease or no grease. How often do you change your ECU connectors? What about the connectors on the rest of your engine? It's a terrible design, there's little doubt about that. I was very nice to my black car's when I pulled it out, and haven't been constantly plugging it back in and out, so we'll see if it's any better (I expect it will be fine).

Be prepared, if you plan on replacing it (Which I would), it is not such an easy job. In fact, it's a real pain in the ass. I had to make upwards of 25 solder connections! Plus you kind of have to cut the old C203 connector out completely before you splice the new one in, otherwise it just gets in the way.

Mach10 · Post by **Mach10** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:42 am

Aaron wrote: Perfectly fine connector, that's why so many of us have had these problems? Perfectly fine connectors shouldn't have these issues, anytime, grease or no grease. How often do you change your ECU connectors? What about the connectors on the rest of your engine? It's a terrible design, there's little doubt about that. I was very nice to my black car's when I pulled it out, and haven't been constantly plugging it back in and out, so we'll see if it's any better (I expect it will be fine).

Be prepared, if you plan on replacing it (Which I would), it is not such an easy job. In fact, it's a real pain in the ass. I had to make upwards of 25 solder connections! Plus you kind of have to cut the old C203 connector out completely before you splice the new one in, otherwise it just gets in the way.

Unless there's a crowd behind that forehead of yours, I'm not positive who these "we" people are that you are referring to. I haven't heard of a whole lot of problems with this connector.

I've taken mine apart dozens of times, the one on my old car, as well as a few friend's fieros. I've NEVER had a problem with a "flaky" C203.

It's a connector that has to deal with heat, cold, oil, dust, and water. For what it does, and what it costs to produce, it's a great design. The pins are robust enough on their own, and the grease packing is more reliable (with repeat disconnections) than silicone sealants--and WAY easier to replace when worn out.

25 solder joints? Oh Noes! I cut, crimped, resoldered and heatshrunk EVERY wire on my harness over an afternoon. That inlcudes the full 3.4TDC loom, and all the connections on the Fiero end. And I'm pretty slow at it.

Don't replace that C203.

Clean it up real nice with some mineral spirits and a nylon brush, stick it under a bright light, and see how good/bad the pins look. You can stuff fine steel-wool into a tube (I've used a slurpee straw) and use that to polish any oxidation off individual pins. Female pins can be cleaned out with solvent, and if I recall correctly, you can tighten the "pinch" on them with a set of very fine needle-nose pliers or similar. To clean 'em is a little more tricky; I've made little scrapers out of welding rod, used fine tweezers and steel wool... use your imagination.

When you reassemble, pack the female end with grease (use your thumb to squeeze into the slots), and then pack the male end. If some doesn't squish out the sides when you put it together, you didn't use enough grease :salute: