more DOHC issues

Real tech discussion on design, fabrication, testing, development of custom or adapted parts for Pontiac Fieros. Not questions about the power a CAI will give.

Moderators: The Dark Side of Will, Series8217

User avatar
Aaron
I just wanna ride my motorcycle
Posts: 5957
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:15 am
Contact:

Post by Aaron »

Mach10 wrote: Unless there's a crowd behind that forehead of yours, I'm not positive who these "we" people are that you are referring to. I haven't heard of a whole lot of problems with this connector.
Steven, I , and now slow'n'steady.
It's a connector that has to deal with heat, cold, oil, dust, and water. For what it does, and what it costs to produce, it's a great design. The pins are robust enough on their own, and the grease packing is more reliable (with repeat disconnections) than silicone sealants--and WAY easier to replace when worn out.
Actually, it doesn't have to deal with heat, cold, oil, water, or dust. Ok maybe a bit of dust, over a 10 year buildup. There is absolutely no grease in the C203. None. Maybe you need to learn which connectors are which on the Fiero. It's pretty complicated, especially after you've wired a couple engine swaps. Ok no, it's really fucking easy actually.
25 solder joints? Oh Noes! I cut, crimped, resoldered and heatshrunk EVERY wire on my harness over an afternoon. That inlcudes the full 3.4TDC loom, and all the connections on the Fiero end. And I'm pretty slow at it.
And? That's ahrd, doing it on your garage floor where you can nicely solder it, with any angle you wish. Try it in the car, when you have less than 1" of wire on a side, and have about 12 to deal with, many the same color.
Don't replace that C203.
No, replace the C203. Don't replace the C203 that Mach10 is talking about.
When you reassemble, pack the female end with grease (use your thumb to squeeze into the slots), and then pack the male end. If some doesn't squish out the sides when you put it together, you didn't use enough grease :salute:
The C203 doesn't need any grease at all.
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
Mach10
Mach10 offers you his protection.
Posts: 2481
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:50 pm

Post by Mach10 »

You're a fucking idiot. It's a 20 year old connector camped out right under a grille, and exposed to the weather... And that it doesn't like being disturbed after all this time surprises you? Jesus. ALL of these people you mention pulled their harnesses apart for an engine swap. Notice how the connector works fine if you don't fuck around with it?

Rip out your harness, and drag it around on your white bedsheets after having driven a couple of years. Then come back and tell me how little oil there is on your harness, retard.

It's not grease that's packed behind the connector, it's some type of nasty accoustic sealant. I've got it smudged all over the back of my hand from working on my own this evening. If you want to fuck around with a big caulking gun full of that shit, be my guest. But you CAN buy dielectric grease which will keep water out, keep the metal from corroding, and ensure that a solid connection STAYS solid--and as a bonus, it's what it's designed for. Yeah, it'll dry out in a couple of years, but if you don't fuck with the connector, it's not an issue. EVERY electrical connection under the hood can and does benefit from dielectric grease.

For your information, the harness was in the car while I cut and spliced it together so that it fit properly. Just because you have the soldering skills of a spastic retard with parkinsons doesn't mean other people have the same trouble.
"Oh, this is too good. She thinks you're a servant... Cause you're black! This is greatest moment in my miserable life... Sooo-ey! I LOVE RACISM!"
User avatar
Aaron
I just wanna ride my motorcycle
Posts: 5957
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:15 am
Contact:

Post by Aaron »

Here I was thinking the C203 was inside of the car all this time.




And I'm the fucking idiot?
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15629
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

MACH is talking about the C500.
The C203 is the *other* chassis interface connection right next to the ECM connectors under the center console.


Both of you settle down.
chuck
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:55 pm

Post by chuck »

I know you guys are bull-headed around here but I'll through this out there for those with real electrical problems. Dielectric grease does not conduct electricity. That is it's purpose. If you have a poor connection and add dielectric grease it will likely get worse unless the act of unplugging it and plugging it back in cleans off enough metal to make a better connection in which case the grease still did nothing. If you have a good connection and wish to keep it good you can add grease but it will not magically repair a poor connection.
slow'n'steady
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:38 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Post by slow'n'steady »

chuck wrote:I know you guys are bull-headed around here but I'll through this out there for those with real electrical problems. Dielectric grease does not conduct electricity. That is it's purpose. If you have a poor connection and add dielectric grease it will likely get worse unless the act of unplugging it and plugging it back in cleans off enough metal to make a better connection in which case the grease still did nothing. If you have a good connection and wish to keep it good you can add grease but it will not magically repair a poor connection.
That is kinda what i was thinking. If the dielectric grease was conductive that would make a whole new world of issues. After cleaning up the connections and making sure they are actualy making a good connection the grease is mainly there to keep crap out. Its a preventative not a solution, i understand this.

Anyways, i got the harness all freshened up and took the advice above (well on page 9 i think) and rather than just taping the bad spots i used some solder and shrink wrap. As for the C203, i cleaned the hell out of it and bent the females a little so it should make a better connection, and will be using a small amount of dielectric grease as well. I will be installing the harness later tonight hopefuly. As for the connector that sat by the battery, I also cleaned the crap out of it (sand, dirt, all kinds of other crap) and will be using some dielectric grease in that one since it is more "open" to the elements. I have a little work to do an the RX7 then i will be turning my attention to the Fiero so i may not get to it tonight, but it will be sometime this weekend.
User avatar
Aaron
I just wanna ride my motorcycle
Posts: 5957
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:15 am
Contact:

Post by Aaron »

I'd use the grease on the C500 for sue, but I wouldn't put it near the C203. The C203 isn't open to any elements, and the grease will further hinder its inability to make proper connections.
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
slow'n'steady
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:38 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Post by slow'n'steady »

OK... i finished up the harness. After doing the wire loom and getting it all taped up and what not. I used the fallowing "tools" to get that bastard all snazzed up!!

Image

I used the cleaner on EVERY electrical connection, and used the grease on the C500 and the ICM plugs as well. I will be hooking the harness all up a little later. Right now i just got the harness put back in the engine bay, and ran the C203 and other connection into the cab. Should take me about 20 minutes or so to finish it up later but i still dont have a good battery so...
p8ntman442
cant get enough of this site!
Posts: 3289
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:37 pm

Post by p8ntman442 »

Aaron wrote:I'd use the grease on the C500 for sue, but I wouldn't put it near the C203. The C203 isn't open to any elements, and the grease will further hinder its inability to make proper connections.
Its op-en to the elements if you leave the sunroof out and it rains.
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15629
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Aaron wrote:I'd use the grease on the C500 for sue, but I wouldn't put it near the C203. The C203 isn't open to any elements, and the grease will further hinder its inability to make proper connections.

I still think your problems are operator error. I've messed with more C203's than you have and haven't had an issue.
User avatar
Aaron
I just wanna ride my motorcycle
Posts: 5957
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:15 am
Contact:

Post by Aaron »

p8ntman442 wrote: Its op-en to the elements if you leave the sunroof out and it rains.
Yah, beneath that 1" thick seamless interior piece and all.
The Dark Side of Will wrote: I still think your problems are operator error. I've messed with more C203's than you have and haven't had an issue.
I'm sue a person fucking with the connector caused the problems, but I didn't fuck with it in any way a factory would expect someone to. Maybe the previous owner did, I'm not sure. But again, there are more than a few of us having these issues, so it is a flawed design. Every other connector on the car and engine is fine, and I can take apart and reconnect hundreds of times.
88GT 3.4 DOHC Turbo
Gooch wrote:Way to go douche. You are like a one-man, fiero-destroying machine.
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15629
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Even if Slow'nSteady makes three, three is NOT more than a few. Three is a VERY few.
p8ntman442
cant get enough of this site!
Posts: 3289
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:37 pm

Post by p8ntman442 »

:banghead:
Xanth
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:40 pm
Contact:

Post by Xanth »

Not sure anyone cares, but I had a weird intermittent failure on an old 2M4 awhile ago and on Aaron's suggestion checked the C203, wiggling it around made everything work. Whenever the car failed I just had to mess with it again.

I never actually fixed it though, ended up junking the car from rot.
slow'n'steady
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:38 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Post by slow'n'steady »

:crybaby:
Think i might have to pull an "Old Yeller" and put this car down for its own good... Got the harness all hooked back up but it didnt make a difference. Again it isnt going into diagnostic mode (i did check the ALDL) I started up for a second but died quickly. I am going to take the ICM and the coils all in and have them checked again.

As for grounding the ICM, where should i connect the ground to it? If i have a ground wire up pressed FIRMLY against the metal plate on the bottom, will that ground it? I wish there was someone near buy with a DOHC!!!!! I would pay them to hook up my harness in their car just to COMPLETELY rule that out or find that is the problem for sure...
User avatar
Series8217
1988 Fiero Track Car
Posts: 5989
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:47 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post by Series8217 »

slow'n'steady wrote::crybaby:
Think i might have to pull an "Old Yeller" and put this car down for its own good... Got the harness all hooked back up but it didnt make a difference. Again it isnt going into diagnostic mode (i did check the ALDL) I started up for a second but died quickly. I am going to take the ICM and the coils all in and have them checked again.
Maybe you need to repin/repair your C203 (and other connectors) instead of spraying it with cleaner that doesn't do anything to remove oxidation. Or at least pull the pins and clean them with fine grit sandpaper until they are shiny.
As for grounding the ICM, where should i connect the ground to it? If i have a ground wire up pressed FIRMLY against the metal plate on the bottom, will that ground it? I wish there was someone near buy with a DOHC!!!!! I would pay them to hook up my harness in their car just to COMPLETELY rule that out or find that is the problem for sure...
Pressed firmly? You better mean screwed down..
slow'n'steady
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:38 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Post by slow'n'steady »

Series8217 wrote:Pressed firmly? You better mean screwed down..
the ICM is screwed down but i relocated the coils to the factory battery location. It worked fine before but I also sanwiched an additional 8awg ground wire between the metal plate on the bottom of the ICM and the battery mount thing...
I cant help but think about how Eric came up here he got it running. At the time it wasnt timed right, but it was running and "driveable". I havent changed anything since then except for the timing. I just think it would be weird for the wiring to get all messed up from just sitting in my garage for about a year (still all hooked up in the car) I am really beginning to think it is something simple that has gone bad like the ICM or a coil or something like that. I am going ot have everything checked again and see what i can do. I may end up parting it out though, i can only waste so much time on one car...
User avatar
Series8217
1988 Fiero Track Car
Posts: 5989
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:47 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post by Series8217 »

slow'n'steady wrote:
Series8217 wrote:Pressed firmly? You better mean screwed down..
the ICM is screwed down but i relocated the coils to the factory battery location. It worked fine before but I also sanwiched an additional 8awg ground wire between the metal plate on the bottom of the ICM and the battery mount thing...
Are you sure there is a clean connection? If there is rust or paint it wont make good contact with the battery mount tray.
The Dark Side of Will
Peer Mediator
Posts: 15629
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: In the darkness, where fear and knowing are one
Contact:

Post by The Dark Side of Will »

Personally I'd run a ground *wire* to the negative junction block (assuming you have your battery forward since you have your coil pack on the batter tray).
User avatar
Series8217
1988 Fiero Track Car
Posts: 5989
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:47 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post by Series8217 »

Or at least put a ring terminal on the wire and screw it down properly somewhere...

EDIT: Wait a second... between the bottom plate and the battery tray? The bottom plate is NOT the ICM ground (though it might be grounded if there isn't ,uch thermal paste under the module). There is a wire coming off of the ICM power connector that must go to ground. Grounding the plate will not help you for any reason. Where does the power ground go to?
Post Reply