Extreme stripping out of a fiero?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:22 pm

Sounds good to me, I'll start with the obvious things that are no longer on my car.

Swaybar, spare tire, emergency brake system, decklid hinges, anything and everything emissions related, the driver's side fender well covers, the rear 1/4 panel, the rocker panel, door skins, front fenders, A/C system, washer fluid system, wiper blades, antenna, and hundreds of miscellaneous brackets for aforementioned useless shit.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:27 pm

When fabbing an aluminum spaceframe there's more things to worry about than just welding up a bunch of tube with a TIG rig. Aluminum has an extremely short fatigue life compared to most steels, and how many of us have access to proper heat treat facilities?

CincinnatiFiero · Post by **CincinnatiFiero** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:29 pm

Atilla the Fun wrote: Cincinati seems to want a Honda S2000.
.

Nail on the head, one of my favorite cars. Fantastically fun for $20k.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:32 pm

I absolutely hate the S2K. They are slow for having what, 220, 240hp. There is no interior room, if you're over 6' your knees are pressed into the dash constantly. And there is a complete lack of anything resembling low end torque. It's worse than a turbo lagged 2.0 DSM motor. Below 5k, those motors aren't worth shit.

The only thing I liked about the S2K, was that it eats boost (The car was a little more fun with 440whp), and the gauges. Best gauge setup I've ever seen.

The Dark Side of Will · Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:38 pm

Indy wrote:When fabbing an aluminum spaceframe there's more things to worry about than just welding up a bunch of tube with a TIG rig. Aluminum has an extremely short fatigue life compared to most steels, and how many of us have access to proper heat treat facilities?

Steel (and ferrous materials) have a "fatigue limit" which is a stress amplitude below which it will NEVER suffer a fatigue failure. This is due to a low stacking fault energy in the lattice restricting dislocations to reversible single plane motion.

Aluminum has a high stacking fault energy which allows lattice dislocations to move in multiple planes. This makes the dislocation motion less likely to reverse fully and gradually accumulates fatigue damage from ANY cyclic stress.

However, a properly triangulated frame should have pretty low cyclic stress amplitude because the material should be loaded directly in tension or compression and not bending.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:45 pm

But you DO have to heat treat the ENTIRE CHASSIS after welding because it's soft-annealed from the welding heat. An annealed chassis won't be very strong.

CincinnatiFiero · Post by **CincinnatiFiero** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:11 pm

Aaron wrote:I absolutely hate the S2K. They are slow for having what, 220, 240hp. There is no interior room, if you're over 6' your knees are pressed into the dash constantly. And there is a complete lack of anything resembling low end torque. It's worse than a turbo lagged 2.0 DSM motor. Below 5k, those motors aren't worth shit.

The only thing I liked about the S2K, was that it eats boost (The car was a little more fun with 440whp), and the gauges. Best gauge setup I've ever seen.

Once you get the revs up and start playing with them at huge rpms they get really fun really fast imo. Never driven a DSM. Drove an EVO, I thought it pulled decently hard until the turbo came on... then shit got silly.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:20 am

If 240hp is really fast, and 270 is when shit gets silly, you need to go out and drive a real car.

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:57 am

Soooo...

Can i cut out my bumper supports? What about the doors? can I cut stuff out of the doors?

CincinnatiFiero · Post by **CincinnatiFiero** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:26 am

Aaron wrote:If 240hp is really fast, and 270 is when shit gets silly, you need to go out and drive a real car.

I like a car that handles well, I've driven a 690HP big block corvette and to be honest the evo was more fun. Obviously 0-60 in 4.8 isn't THAT fast in the grand scheme of things but that it still is a fast car. I've driven 335i's , SRT8s, AMG, etc I've driven "fast" cars and still think the S2k is "fun to drive".

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:17 pm

darkhorizon wrote:Soooo...

Can i cut out my bumper supports? What about the doors? can I cut stuff out of the doors?

I can honestly say, I would not removed anything from the doors. Yes, they are fucking heavy. But this is because they are built to handle an impact. And after my car got hit in the door area, I'm glad they were that strong. It ruined the door, broke the glass, etc, but the driver wasn't even touched.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:35 pm

you can cut the door beams out. I think they weigh around 25 lbs or so.

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:50 pm

anything else? have sawzall, will cut!

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:36 pm

Series8217 wrote:But you DO have to heat treat the ENTIRE CHASSIS after welding because it's soft-annealed from the welding heat. An annealed chassis won't be very strong.

Since 6061 is an age-hardening alloy and doesn't respond well to any other type of heat treatment. I think that most powder coating ovens can get hot enough to age harden aluminum. There's one where my dad works that's big enough for a chassis.

However, if you did that to re-harden the welds, you'd be over-aging the rest of the chassis.

If you want to use 2024 (or 2124(?) for fatigue resistance), then it's a different story. That alloy likes work hardening...

Heat treating can get pretty complicated and I don't know enough to say what process would be good enough.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:16 pm

fuck that, Im building a billet alluminum fiero chasis. No welds at all.

I'll pretty much use it to set land spped records in my spare time until I can get my carbon nanotube frame set up properly.

I have one concern though. I went front engine all wheel drive but used a solid fuel rocket booster so I think the heat might melt the back half of the car.

And I also have magnecore spark plug wire.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:20 pm

You won't have to worry about those wires interfering with your radio since they have good rfi suppresion.

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:39 pm

GAH! ON TOPIC PLZ!

Anyway, annealing metal chassis is not to promote heat treating, its to remove the stresses put on it during the construction process. it takes the "elastic" properties out of the metals so the joints are not pulling apart.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:11 pm

darkhorizon wrote:GAH! ON TOPIC PLZ!

Anyway, annealing metal chassis is not to promote heat treating, its to remove the stresses put on it during the construction process. it takes the "elastic" properties out of the metals so the joints are not pulling apart.

You have to heat treat annealed aluminum. It's weak as shit. Ever try bending a 6061-T6 pipe by hand? NOT easy. 6061-O (annealed/no heat treat)? A child could do it.

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:28 am

So, what sort of structural role do the bumpers play? I want to dump them if I can, along with anything else in the front I dont feel I need to keep around.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:35 am

He's taking after my car, except, he's doing so on purpose. Weird...