Real Fiero Tech

The 3400 and 3500 engines can push 270+ to the wheels all motor, and weigh a good bit less than the 3800SC... good combo for AutoX

The Dark Side of Will wrote:The 3400 and 3500 engines can push 270+ to the wheels all motor, and weigh a good bit less than the 3800SC... good combo for AutoX

Can't do an engine swap outside of the modified classes (or SM/SSM). He's going to have keep the 2.8 block for BSP.

A turbo 3500 could work for SSM but even that powertrain would be a bit heavy. See Can an '88 Fiero be competitive in SSM?

The Dark Side of Will wrote:I thought Fieros ran CSP...

You've picked the best year/model of Fiero for autocrossing.

Can you start a thread on your 3.6 swap?

Fieros have been moved to Bsp. That's kinda why I got it for the year and model.

Series8217 wrote:

The Dark Side of Will wrote:The 3400 and 3500 engines can push 270+ to the wheels all motor, and weigh a good bit less than the 3800SC... good combo for AutoX

Can't do an engine swap outside of the modified classes (or SM/SSM). He's going to have keep the 2.8 block for BSP.

A turbo 3500 could work for SSM but even that powertrain would be a bit heavy. See Can an '88 Fiero be competitive in SSM?

Tru dat... forgot "BSP" for a sec

Series8217 wrote:

The Dark Side of Will wrote:The 3400 and 3500 engines can push 270+ to the wheels all motor, and weigh a good bit less than the 3800SC... good combo for AutoX

Can't do an engine swap outside of the modified classes (or SM/SSM). He's going to have keep the 2.8 block for BSP.

A turbo 3500 could work for SSM but even that powertrain would be a bit heavy. See Can an '88 Fiero be competitive in SSM?

I think it would be fine for SSM I don't really see weight being a factor here. My minimum would be 2502 lbs if i have a 3.5 turbo with 275 hoosiers all the way around.

tehmaxfactr wrote:My minimum would be 2502 lbs if i have a 3.5 turbo with 275 hoosiers all the way around.

Hahaha. I guess you haven't weighed a Fiero in street trim yet. It's VERY hard to remove weight from a Fiero in SSM. Don't forget you are not allowed to cut out the trunk! Your car is going to be 2700 to 2800 pounds without even having a driver in it. You will not even be close to your minimum weight, but the Miatas and RX7s you are running against will be. Make sure you read the thread I linked to above.

I don't see you getting it down to 2500 lbs with that power train, or damn near any V6 for that matter. You'd basically need to remove 300-400lbs from the rest of the car. And if have to keep the 2.8l for BSP the 3500 is out anyway. Have you considered a 3.4l OHV? To any judge or even the most experienced person it's identical in outward appearance to the 2.8l, but adds a good deal of torque and like 20hp.

Aaron wrote:I don't see you getting it down to 2500 lbs with that power train, or damn near any V6 for that matter. You'd basically need to remove 300-400lbs from the rest of the car. And if have to keep the 2.8l for BSP the 3500 is out anyway. Have you considered a 3.4l OHV? To any judge or even the most experienced person it's identical in outward appearance to the 2.8l, but adds a good deal of torque and like 20hp.

Yea i have been told to put the 3.4 in lol. I dont want to cheat, so I am just going to run the 2.8. as until I head over to SSM. If I can get down to that weight I will just add bigger tires than 275 that would put my minium at 2700.

I almost bought that car when it was still in Pensacola. I built my own instead. the build seemed like an OK "build" but in reality, it was just a stock 3500 and a turbo. the car had decent street cred around here for whatever that's worth.

Interesting... any idea how much power it makes?

I think getting his formula to 2502 lbs isn't out of reach but keeping the stock iron head engine in there won't help things. I don't know the rules for bsp as far as using an aluminum head 2.8 since it is a swap.

Does a cage need to be installed?

It appears his formula is a t top so removing the glass is prob worth 20-30 lbs right there.
Lightweightflywheel
Starter
Trunk carpet
Interior carpet
Spare seat
Spare tire and jack
Exhaust
lightweight battery

Just to name a few things. I think I calculated over 200 lbs out of my car and that is without removing the passenger seat yet. I think I weighed the pass seat at around 27 lbs

The last time I ran an SCCA event they had a microphone on one of the straights and you were DQ if you went over a certain decibel level. I remember a few of the serious Miata guys packing their exhausts after they went over.

I thought that only happened at certain venues...

Shaun41178(2) wrote:I think getting his formula to 2502 lbs isn't out of reach but keeping the stock iron head engine in there won't help things. I don't know the rules for bsp as far as using an aluminum head 2.8 since it is a swap.

Does a cage need to be installed?

It appears his formula is a t top so removing the glass is prob worth 20-30 lbs right there.
Lightweightflywheel
Starter
Trunk carpet
Interior carpet
Spare seat
Spare tire and jack
Exhaust
lightweight battery

Just to name a few things. I think I calculated over 200 lbs out of my car and that is without removing the passenger seat yet. I think I weighed the pass seat at around 27 lbs

Hold on now.. you're getting things confused between the builds. The minimum weight he's talking about is for the SSM build, not BSP. SSM has a minimum weight based on drive wheels, engine displacement, forced induction, and tire width. There is no minimum weight for BSP, but there are extreme limitations on what you can do to save weight. From an SSM perspective, remember that he's adding a 3.5, turbocharger, and presumably 17x9 or 18x9 wheels so he can fit 275s or wider on all four corners.

Lightweight flywheel - 7 lbs (permitted in BSP and SSM)
Mini starter -7 lbs (permitted in BSP and SSM)
Trunk carpet can't be removed for BSP or SSM
Interior carpet can't be removed for BSP or SSM
Spare seat can't be removed for BSP or SSM
Spare tire and jack - 30 lbs (guesstimate)
Exhaust - depends... the SP rules say that "exhaust manifolds and muffler systems are free, except that they must be quiet and terminate behind the driver". "quiet" is not defined. Straight pipes probably not ok. In SSM I think anything goes.
Lightweight battery saves up to 30 lbs (permitted in BSP and SSM)

He doesn't need a cage for either class.

I would expect a turbocharged 3.5 to weigh about the same as my '88 3.4 DOHC Fiero, which is 2780 lbs with very little left to remove and still be legal in SSM. I might be able to take 100 lbs off my car with a super-light battery, lighter wheels, two-piece rotors, and tubular front control arms. Another 100 lbs is doable by spending 4 or 5 digits on custom carbon fiber body panels. The hood, decklid, and rear fascia are probably the best parts to make lighter.

Aaron wrote:The last time I ran an SCCA event they had a microphone on one of the straights and you were DQ if you went over a certain decibel level. I remember a few of the serious Miata guys packing their exhausts after they went over.

The Dark Side of Will wrote:I thought that only happened at certain venues...

If the venue has a noise limit they'll do that.

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Interesting... any idea how much power it makes?

you don't need much to have good street cred in pensacola... I'm thinking it was somewhere around 350 whp.

Yea.. I am only taking out the Bsp legal weight right now. I am also going to be running 15s so I imagine that my wheel setup will be a lot lighter. Here is a link to the engine weights http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/089287.html
As far as Bsp goes I am removing all the speakers, CD player, sc, cruise control, with a shorty exhaust, light weight battery, wheels, maybe flywheel, and seats. I think as far as Bsp goes I'm looking to get about 200 lbs out.

ericjon262 wrote:... I'm thinking it was somewhere around 350 whp.

That's what Mike told me too, but I still don't believe it.

Emc209i wrote:

ericjon262 wrote:... I'm thinking it was somewhere around 350 whp.

That's what Mike told me too, but I still don't believe it.

I am hopefully going to get it running through this holiday season but the gasket and the head studs arr like 400$

Emc209i wrote:

ericjon262 wrote:... I'm thinking it was somewhere around 350 whp.

That's what Mike told me too, but I still don't believe it.

I'd say it's definitely possible, but it depends on how much boost is pushed in. one guy on the 60v6 forums was running low 11's in a Cam and boost 3500 installed in a camaro.

I know its possible, I'm just saying I don't believe the numbers they were slinging around back then. Dyno it once you get the head gasket fixed, it needs to be done.