all Aluminum 2point8 prototype race engine???

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:06 pm

Edit I own page two

no I dont want to sell it, yes it is a nice sandwich, my roomate works at starbucks and gets them for free. Cook them in the oven for a few minuts and ........

anyways, I have a set of 4.9 sleves at my house in ct, will check the dimensions this weekend probably. That would be cool.

You are correct the lifter bores are fed through that tube and then they go to all the lifters.

not going dohc on this any time soon. that takes money, i dont have money.

I need recomendations on a cam lifters and rockers.

Post by **eHoward** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:50 pm

the shaun

Doug Chase wrote:
Why don't we have any normal fucking smilies around here?

Doug

Post by **eHoward** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:54 pm

I think an autoXer needs to get one, paint it rust brown and put a hurting on miatas and MR2s in stock class.

The Dark Side of Will wrote:DAM THESE PROTOTYPE ALUMINUM 2point8 BLOCKS!!!
I WANT ONE!!!!

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:02 pm

hmm those heads appear to be the small valve heads.

And you gave the dimension on the intake valve to be 38mm diameter? That equates to 1.5 inches. thats not a large valve at all.

I sawy you recheck or be more specific ont he face of the valve and its diameter.

Looking at them though they look like the small valves. I could be wrong though. Hard to tell from teh pics.

You def scored a deal though. Looks just like the stuff me and Jon got like a year ago.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:20 pm

They may be the smaller valves, if so Im gonna get a new set of stainless valves installed.

valve sizes are 46 mm intake and 39mm exhaust that calculates to
1.5354 exhaust and 1.811 intake

what are the dimensions of the large valves???? This was done with a pocket sized caliper set with the valves in the head, I cant get more acurate until I get the thiong home and remove the valves.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:42 pm

yes remove the valves to get more accurate numbers

HO valves are 1.72 and 1.42.

yea 1.8 is def oversized if that is correct. You really need to hog those heads out if you plan to use them. sculpting al heads is so easy and quick.

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:04 pm

taking a closer look those are the smaller valve heads. Just swapping htem on you will prob lose hp.

Will prob need to take them to a machinist and see if they can machine the seats for the larger valves. Not sure if possible but I dont' see why not. Shouldnt' cost too much extra. Just take them over and get an opinion before you spend the money on the HO valves. Just make srue its possible first.

You will save about 50 lbs with the block and about 20 pounds with the heads so about 70ish total. Not bad.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:06 pm

p8ntman442 wrote:I have a set of Peice of shit sleves at my house in ct, will check the dimensions this weekend probably. That would be cool.

Stock 4point9 bores are 92mm. There was discussion a while back on the Cadero Owners Forum on yahoo groups about aftermarket sleeves for that engine... I heard numbers tossed around like +4 or even +5 or +6 mm.

What's the V6/60 bore center?

The Northstar deck height is almost exactly the same as the V6/60 deck height... not sure about the 4.x architecture.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:28 pm

shaun do you know what the compression on this motor might be with flat pistons and those heads?

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:35 pm

Dont' listen to FieroObsessed. he means well but he is wrong.

Compression will be around stock.

Oops I mean compression will be throgh the roof!! Sell to me

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:33 pm

ok, so i got two different opinions, and fierobsessed is a pretty smart guy, and I talked to him for a long time at kick hill once. Soooooo, instead of argue, how the hell do I measure the compression with the engine as is, I assume I measure the volume of the compression chamber and add in a crushed gasket factor, then add the area of the piston at tdc in the bore, then do the same with the piston at bdc. Then divide the two numbers. Getting my static compression ratio? or is that dynamic. whatever how the hell do I measure the volume of the combution chamber in the first place.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:45 pm

OK, I got one intake valve out, let me tell you it is not easy to get an intake valve out with only an adjustable wrench and a lock pic, but my roomate and I got the spring depressed and I got it out. It deffinatly measures 46 mm at the widest point. Is that where im supposed to be measureing this thing, of the bowl opening. fyi 46 mm is 1.81 inches, which is pretty big. The good news is that the valves seem to be new, and all new valve seals are on it. yay.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:51 pm

valve stem diameter = 14mm 0.551181102 inches
valve spring height = 55mm 2.16535433 inches

spring shim 6 mm

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:03 pm

do you have a stock 1.72 valve laying around to compare it to? Thtas a good way to tell right there if you are measuring right.

Trust me. I will bet one cagillion million zillion dollars that the compression ratio wont' be off the chart. Those pistons look like factory stockers. They dont' stick out above the deck height an obscene amount and also the CC of those heads is shaped like stockers. YOu will be fine

Trust me. Your compression ratio will be close to stock.

Unless you think I am wrong, and you want to sell them.

I think fieroobsessed misunderstood you because you said gen 2 heads in one of your posts and then said aluminum. he thinks you are using gen 2 heads. Not gen 1 heads like what you have there. Gen 1 heads are Fiero heads and camaro heads. Gen 2 only came on FWD cars. You have gen 1 heads but in aluminum not iron.

toddshotrods · Post by **toddshotrods** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:09 pm

Is this block the same as the Bowtie block (pt # 10051141)? If not, how similar are they?

Post by **eHoward** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:09 pm

yeah, those look like Gen 1 heads but in aluminum.

AkursedX · Post by **AkursedX** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:20 pm

Shaun41178(2) wrote:
sculpting al heads is so easy and quick.

In the time that it would take me to one intake and exhaust port, I could usually do a complete lower and middle intake. It would be so much nicer if they made the Gen-1 heads aluminum, I'd be making a living off of porting those things!

Shaun41178(2) · Post by **Shaun41178(2)** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:30 pm

doubtfull. Noone would pay. ASk me how I know.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:39 pm

toddshotrods wrote:Is this block the same as the Bowtie block (pt # 10051141)? If not, how similar are they?

NO. This is NOT a bowtie block. This is a prototype aluminum 2.8 block that was not put into production. JM picked up one like it a while back very similar to this package... even had the aluminum gen 1 heads.

Anyway...

Production V6/60 block has two oil galleries for the lifters, but one is bigger than the other and also feeds the cam/mains.
Bowtie block has three galleries like a small block Chevy.
TDC block has one gallery that feeds intermediate shaft, mains, and sends a passage up to the cylinder heads.
This prototype block seems to be set up like a TDC with a single gallery next to the cam that sends a passage up to a removable valley tray that has the lifter bosses.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:47 pm

ok, I dont have a spare valve here, Im at school, an hour and 20 min. away from anything resembling a fiero, tool, or shop rag. But I do have my handy pocket calipers and a digital camera. Now When I take this picture, the caliper reads 46mm on the inside reading and 41 on the outside reading. now since im stupid I read it wrong. looking at the thing closed the inside means using the outside of the tips. and the outside means using the insde of the tips. In other words, outside diameter inside diameter. DUH! so the valves are 41mm wide as shown in the pic.
41 millimeters = 1.61417323 inches
ho valves: 1.72 inches = 43.68800 millimeters

so there it is my valves are the small ones and I suck at reading a caliper.