Real Fiero Tech

Why not start with 3400 block and step into a little modern technology with a roller cam?

loudias wrote: People are also setting the timing to stock. When you should really set it to the point just before pinging for maximum power. To find that point, you must advance it until you ping. That scares people. It's what I did.

That's how I tuned mine. Long before I dynoed it, I tuned it 'by ear', driving around the neighborhood. After making a couple of dyno runs and changing chips, I bumped the timing up a couple of degrees, and it pinged pretty bad, so I backed it off a bit and left it there. Leads me to believe that it was pretty damn close, before. FWIW, That was the short run that was posted on trackmasters website. I don't think the pings came through, though.
I couldn't tell you what the timing looks like with a timing light. (Yes, I do own one. Just seldom use it.)

My goal is 180rwhp. As I've stated at Pennock's. I don't feel the intake is the current major restriction on the 3.4 as the entire system is not very efficient. A bigger exhaust is in order. The exhaust will give me atleast 50% of my gains over the previous 150hp.

What did Oreif make, at the wheels? Seems like it was pretty close to 180. I remember it was 210-220 at the crank. He had the Edelbrock intake, ported heads, and a carb. Seems like the exhaust wasn't anything special. (Sprints, maybe? No cat?) You can have whatever opinions you want about Oreif, but I don't believe he was bullshitting about his numbers.
Again, I'm *not* trying to bust your balls. I appreciate what you've been doing. Just something to think about.

I've spent over $4500 before and I'll do it again. I really haven't had any reliability issues that weren't my own fault with 60 degree motors. That is how I can justify spending this much.

I ended up with a 3.4 because it was not really any more expensive than it would have been to replace the worn out V6, that I had just swapped in in place of the 4 banger. (What can I say. It sounded good in the parts car I towed home. Ya' learn..) Of course it kind of snowballed from there. If 'more' is enough, then 'too much' is just right. Right?
I didn't start out trying to wring every last HP out of the 3.4, though. It's just what I've got. If I had planned to invest $4500 in a drivetrain, I'd just swap in a 3800SC and be done with it. And be faster than 85% of the cars on the road.
And I know what you mean about the 'random clutch dumps'. Tires and tranny parts are kinda spendy, when you've got lotsa other shit that takes priority. I'm 48, BTW.

Again, the difference is I don't turn the wrenches so going to a 3800 or any other motor is going to run me lots of money more. Also, I am unimpressed with the 4 . 9 as a low cost option and with available power. At the wheels they make 160-170 and 235-250 ft*lbs. As I said, I am expecting 180hp and 210 ft*lbs. It will be better on the tranny and I have no complaints about bottom end torque, look at my torque curves below 3600 rpm - flat and high.

Maybe I'm a sucker for punishment because when I do decide to abandon the Fiero motor, I am just going to get an LSx block installed from V8Archie hopefully with the G6 6 speed.

In the meantime, it's a personal quest of mine, I guess, to see what I can do with a motor that when I lift the hood and show it to people, they will say "oh, it's just a Fiero motor" but when I give them a ride then they say "That's a Fiero motor?!!!"

I'm not looking to spin this sucker to 7000rpm to make power. I want a street motor. I want a peak between 4800 and 5200. I was getting about 4200-4500 with the last 2 motors. I'm hoping the shorter intake and bigger exhaust will put me in that range. One of my dyno runs was with no intake tube connected to the throttle body. I gained 0 PEAK horsepower. However the peak power moved right about 1000rpm. It put my peak at about 5500 rpm. That's what made me realize that a ported intake is good enough and shortening it will only help. Maybe it was a bad assumption - don't know but I'm happy with the ported intake. The shorter intake (with some more porting and lots of smoothing) along with a freer exhaust should get me to where I want to be as far as where I make my peak hp.

I want an aluminum flywheel. Using the TDC pistons should put me in the 9.8:1 compression ratio range if not higher with the overbore. That combined should maintain my bottom end torque. It will finally require 92+ octane...oh well.

My a/f ratio on my last 3.4 was 12.8:1 across the board. I don't know what the Fierostore injectors are rated but they sure profided enough fuel.

This time I may even get a proper chip burned. :thumbup:

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Why not start with 3400 block and step into a little modern technology with a roller cam?

There aren't any off the shelf performance roller cams...or are there? Also, while I have heard it's possible to mod the heads and lower intake to use a roller cam block, it may be over my mechanic's head. If you've got a package I can buy with the necessary mods, let me know. However, cam choices are limited... Again, if I am going to swap an entire motor - computer and all - I'll just get an V8Archie LSx swap and be done with it (along with the Fierbird dash).

Question: are there 2 different 60 degree 3.5 blocks now?
I'm pretty sure the Malibu uses a 3.7" bore and is the same block as the 3400 but I've also heard of the 3.5/3.9 block that essentially is a 3800 block turned into a 60 degree motor - so it's a little longer than the 3.4 block.

The 3.5 is, AFAIK, just a bigger bore 3.4.

The 3.9 block, which AIUI is just conjecture at this point, finally has the bore size that the V6/60 bore center can support... but they had to move the bores outboard a bit to clear the cam.

I thought that people were having pretty decent regrinds done on stock cams? No body has bothered to make any blanks yet?

Cam Motion has just started doing cams

Noone has dyno numbers yet.

Lifts and durations are pretty big from what I understand

You can go custom too.

Or you can just get a regrind on a stock roller GM cam.

Not much has to be done to use a 3X00 block.

A small notch or two on the lower intake mani to clear the lifter guides. Custom pushrods and thats it.

BigRedDeckSpoiler wrote:

What did Oreif make, at the wheels? Seems like it was pretty close to 180. I remember it was 210-220 at the crank. He had the Edelbrock intake, ported heads, and a carb. Seems like the exhaust wasn't anything special. (Sprints, maybe? No cat?) You can have whatever opinions you want about Oreif, but I don't believe he was bullshitting about his numbers.
Again, I'm *not* trying to bust your balls. I appreciate what you've been doing. Just something to think about.

I remember dave doing 219 crank and like 189 whp. Which is pretty darn good. def good numbers for a 3.4 I think he had sprints but dont' quote me.

Oreif's motor...
http://www.fiero.com/forum/Archives/Arch ... 54204.html

He didn't mention what RPM he hit that at. Probably pretty close to 6k.

loudias wrote:Oreif's motor...
He didn't mention what RPM he hit that at. Probably pretty close to 6k.

From the thread...

"For Exhaust I am using the Sprint manifolds, Stock "Y" pipe without the O2 sensor, and a Borla system from Twin Lake with no catalytic converter."

If he's making 227 HP (or 192 at the wheels with an automatic) that kind of leads me to think that there is more to be gained on my motor by addressing the lower intake, heads and cam. Maybe replacing the muffler.
Mine has Sprints, stock Y-pipe, and stock muffler with no cat.

Don't forget the higher compression ratio. That's why I will go with the 3.4TDC pistons next time...

Ooops. You're right. I missed the 9.42:1 compression ratio.
I don't think I'll be doing that. I already have to run premium.

BigRedDeckSpoiler wrote:I already have to run premium.

Why is that? Maybe your timing is off or your plugs are too hot.

BigRedDeckSpoiler wrote:Ooops. You're right. I missed the 9.42:1 compression ratio.
I don't think I'll be doing that. I already have to run premium.

I'm running a 3.4 roller cam block with 3.4DOHC pistons using 87 octane.

I'm going to have to look into the Cam motions site. Right now I'm just using the stock cam. Although I don't know if I would want to take the whole motor out to change the cam. -Mark

loudias wrote:

BigRedDeckSpoiler wrote:I already have to run premium.

Why is that? Maybe your timing is off or your plugs are too hot.

Probably how the chip is burned. Timing was set at 10* initial, adjusted by ear from there. I got so accustomed to setting it by ear that I quit using the light. Plugs are NGK UR6, which are actually one range colder than the UR5s that everyone likes to run. The plugs really didn't make a difference, BTW.

Dough19 wrote:

BigRedDeckSpoiler wrote:Ooops. You're right. I missed the 9.42:1 compression ratio.
I don't think I'll be doing that. I already have to run premium.

I'm running a 3.4 roller cam block with 3.4DOHC pistons using 87 octane.

I'm going to have to look into the Cam motions site. Right now I'm just using the stock cam. Although I don't know if I would want to take the whole motor out to change the cam. -Mark

The stock roller cam, IIRC is a good bit more aggressive than any of the factory flat tappet cams.
Maybe you could holesaw a hole in the wheel house just big enough to slip the cam out through it...

can anyone post pics of the mods necessary for a roller cam block. or email them to lou@josephbiron.com

also, what are the roller cam specs?

I know I've been off the board for a while but...

I'd like to add that recently Oreif said that he had also removed the restrictions from the stock cross-over pipe. That alone could get you 10 or more rwhp.

loudias wrote:I know I've been off the board for a while but...

I'd like to add that recently Oreif said that he had also removed the restrictions from the stock cross-over pipe. That alone could get you 10 or more rwhp.

I've been paying attention to that. I may just have to fix mine.

The engine is coming out this winter to swap in a 5 speed. Thinking about doing *lots* of stuff while I've got it out. Depends upon how much spare time and funds I have available.
Anyone seen the Y-collector in the flowmaster catalog? Looks like just the ticket to remove the restriction in the Fiero crossover pipe.
What size pipe does the crossover use, anyway?

loudias wrote:can anyone post pics of the mods necessary for a roller cam block. or email them to lou@josephbiron.com

also, what are the roller cam specs?

Depends on what head/intake setup you use.
If you just want to drop a stock 3400 into your Fiero, basically all you have to do is wiring, plumbing and alternator relocation.

BigRedDeckSpoiler wrote:

loudias wrote:I know I've been off the board for a while but...

I'd like to add that recently Oreif said that he had also removed the restrictions from the stock cross-over pipe. That alone could get you 10 or more rwhp.

I've been paying attention to that. I may just have to fix mine.

The engine is coming out this winter to swap in a 5 speed. Thinking about doing *lots* of stuff while I've got it out. Depends upon how much spare time and funds I have available.
Anyone seen the Y-collector in the flowmaster catalog? Looks like just the ticket to remove the restriction in the Fiero crossover pipe.
What size pipe does the crossover use, anyway?

the fieros crosover is like 1.5" or something - the 3.4tdc's is 2.25"