My N* Swap

[whipped]

buy a ribber tensioner pulley. I don't remember what size idler pulley I'm using, but I do know that's the belt size.

You can order just the pulley? Mine sounds like a bloody cricket, but cadillac wants $$$$$ for the whole assembly.

[The Dark Side of Will]

You can get generic pulleys from CarQuest.

[crzyone]

Well, a day off and I have some pregress on the battery tray. Took my blueprints for the battery tray to the local machine shop and had one of the guys make it for me. Took him probibly 10 minutes to do it, cut the metal and then make the bends on a brake press. I also picked up the square stock for the new front cradle crossmember. When I went to pay he said "put it in your truck, quickly before the boss gets back" and when I got back all he charged me for was the square stock. Pretty cool guy!

Anyways, here is the test fit.







Fits perfect. Lots of room for the battery cables. Its such a snug fit that I hardly need to make hold downs, but I will make one that goes across the top of the battery. Now I just need to pull it back out, paint it and bolt it in permanant.

[crzyone]

Will, I just noticed that your fiero has the fastest stock engine on the fiero 1/4 mile list. If anything, your stock engine was underpowered because of the pcm you were using. Thats pretty cool man! What do you think your car would have done with a 300hp chip or aftermarket pcm?

[The Dark Side of Will]

hmm...

<benchracing>
It had 2" dual exhaust and a non-optimal intake tube, plus the wrong PCM program and gabriel struts rather than Konis when I ran that time
So +20 from the tune, plus a couple here and there from a 2.25" or even 2.5" dual exhaust and a 3.5" mandrel bent intake tube.
The Konis would let me launch better and maybe drop the 60' from 1.92 to 1.8x.

So maybe 12.5's to 12.6's with a 3.61 transmission.

Beyond that, I could run a 3.94 trans with a Tilton or Quartermaster dual disk clutch. That combo might drop another 0.2-0.3.

And going as far as I can with a stock engine and adding headers would drop some more but I won't hazard a guess about how much.

So if someone went as far as they could with a stock L37 engine, mid/low 12's ought to be possible.
</benchracing>

[crzyone]

I got my new rebuilt getrag 5 speed yesterday. 660km round trip, my $700 truck made it there and back :thumbleft:

Now I can start mounting the motor and engine to the cradle. Unfortunatly, the getrag is from a gm fwd, so I'll have to buy Rodney's conversion kit. Atleast fwd transmissions are easy to find if I ever grenade this one.

I transfered the cv shafts and vss sensor, can anyone tell me what the vacume line on top of the getrag is for?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Case vent. It vented to atmosphere in the Fiero, but was hooked to the EECS canister in later cars.

[donk_316]

Christ Levi,
He coulda cleaned the case up for you in his casewasher thing.

[crzyone]

Did some work on the swap today

Modified the getrag for the caddy starter


Welded in my new crossbar, installed it before cutting out the old one so I didn't mess up and screw up the measurement between the front cradle mounts




I built myself a low table for working on the engine and cradle, this makes working on this thing so much easier. Wish I would have made this back when I did the 3.4dohc...

[crzyone]

Well, I need some advice from someone who has done this before. I am at the point of making motor and trani mounts. I will be solid mounting the motor to the engine cradle. I will use the stock front engine mount from the caddy, otherwise everything else will be made. How do you guys figure out how to center the engine/transmission on the cradle? I was thinking of reinstalling the suspension on the cradle and mounting the transmission first. Get it centered, cv's equal on both sides and then leveling the motor.

I want the motor to be as low as possible, I guess I have to put the suspension at full downward travel and make sure the axels don't hit? I'm kind of answering some of my questions as I go but I would still like advice.

Thanks!

[The Dark Side of Will]

I bought an extra cradle when I did my swap. I measured where the CL of the 2.8 crank was relative to the forward pivot of right control arm and put the CL of the N* crank in the same location on my swap cradle. I used stock transmission mounts. I would suggest using stock transmission mounts to locate the transmission while you put the engine where it needs to go and built the engine mounts. Then when the engine is located, build transmission mounts.

Why do people get so cut-happy when they install the new X-member?

This is what my cradle looks like:



The transmission bolts on like stock.

[whipped]

I want the motor to be as low as possible

Keep the bottom of the oil pan above the bottom of the cradle. You won't be sorry. When it comes to speed bumps and shit, you want something other than your oil pan to scrape or hit. The N*s oil pan is pretty heavy duty cast aluminum, but that means you'll be more likely to crack it vs dent it like a regular steel pan.

hey that rhymes!

"When it comes to speed bumps and shit, you want something other than your oil pan to scrape or hit."

I should turn that into a song

[crzyone]

Will, would it be possible for you to measure where the crank centerline is on your cradle? I removed the whole stock front crossmember because I don't have any stock engine mounts for my new getrag. I checked and the 4 speed mounts I do have don't even come close to fitting the getrag. I will just get the whole driveline where I want it and start cutting steel and making my own mounts.

Good idea with the oil pan, I will keep it 1/2" or 1" above the bottom of the cradle. I was kind of thinking about that already, and with my lowering springs I don't want to take any chances.

Thanks Guys

[The Dark Side of Will]

Will, would it be possible for you to measure where the crank centerline is on your cradle? I removed the whole stock front crossmember because I don't have any stock engine mounts for my new getrag. I checked and the 4 speed mounts I do have don't even come close to fitting the getrag. I will just get the whole driveline where I want it and start cutting steel and making my own mounts.

Good idea with the oil pan, I will keep it 1/2" or 1" above the bottom of the cradle. I was kind of thinking about that already, and with my lowering springs I don't want to take any chances.

Thanks Guys

I'll see if I can snap a pic and draw a picture of where the crank CL is.

With factory trans mounts, the bottom of the oil pan is more or less flush with the bottom of the cradle. There really isn't very much room at all to lower the engine unless you dry-sump. My anti-roll bar goes more or less right under my oil pan and protects it.

Rodney Dickman sells beefier-than-stock mount brackets for Getrags. He and WCF sell poly transmission mounts as well.

[crzyone]

Some progress today. Havn't really worked on anything for the last month or so. Had a shutdown at work and just havn't had time.

I finally got the trani mounted to the N* without issues today. I couldnt figure out why the trani wouldn't fit onto the block, it seemed like something was hitting but I couldn't see what. When I pulled the trani out of the waterlog I realized there is a tab that is part of the casting on the getrag that needed to come off. It was hitting the waterlog and it was not allowing me to get the trani high enough.



I then got the trani on the motor but then the clutch fork arm was also hitting the waterlog so I shaved the shaft flush with the arm.



Still a tight fit but now it moves freely



I had to get a picture of it together, starting to look like something.



I then lifted the motor and trani and put the engine cradle in place to look at the fit. If I keep the oil pan flush with the engine cradle, this is what the clearances will look like. It looks fine by me, I think I will keep it this way.






I think I will end up buying Rodney's getrag trani mounts, and shifter conversion kit. I will use the trani mounts but I will solid mount the trani and motor to the cradle.

Just 1 question, are the 4 speed and 5 speed cradles drilled the same for the trani mounts?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Still a tight fit but now it moves freely

Do you get full travel from the throw out arm? I had to shave the side of the slave cylinder push rod cup on my TO arm in order for it to clear the water manifold.
I didn't think there was THAT much difference between the early and Y2K water manifolds...

Just 1 question, are the 4 speed and 5 speed cradles drilled the same for the trani mounts?

Yes.

[crzyone]

Didn't have to shave the cup. It seems to have full travel the way it is now. Until I have a getrag slave I won't know for sure.

Do you see a difference between the y2k waterlog and yours?

[The Dark Side of Will]

From the angle in your picture, it's difficult to say.
However, the early and late waterlogs are different.

In Y2K, the EGR passage and TB coolant were integrated into a projection off the water manifold. The EGR used to be introduced through an external tube and TB spacer and the TB coolant went straight to the TB. This allowed the intake to be pulled with TB attached in about 5-10 minutes. With the Y2K setup, the TB must be removed, which somewhat increases the time required to pull the intake (in order to access the starter, although that's very rarely necessary).

The shape of the cooling passages in the heads also changed.
I'll have to compare the undersides of them, though. I don't recall having to remove any material on the throw out shaft, just the side of the cup at the end of the arm.

[crzyone]

This took me about 5 minutes :thumbleft:



TB doesn't need to come off to remove the intake. Since I removed the power steering bracket, the intake comes on and off as quickly as you can take out the bolts holding it down.

Here is the underside of the intake, not sure if its any different than the earlier intakes

[crzyone]

Took some pics for you of the arm.

Here it is in its normal position




Here it is at full extention.


It doesn't come close to the waterlog, seems to have full travel