progress on the banshee...

[ericjon262]

Timing changes seemed to help.

I'm running into an odd issue, and I have yet to pinpoint the cause. randomly, the car will start surging quite badly, with seemingly no outside input.

[ericjon262]

I had it idling nicely for a few minutes, it's still pretty rich, and it had quite a bit of throttle to do it, I hadn't really looked into how much throttle an engine needs to idle with a reasonable AFR, but 8% sounds a bit extreme to me, I'll have to look into what the normals are. I definitely have more work to do for sure.

[pmbrunelle]

Since MS3 does not natively support DBW, and you have a separate DBWX2 box, how is the idle opening % determined?

Does the DBWX2 figure how much idle opening is needed on its own?

Does the MS3 send an idle opening order to the DBWX2?

[ericjon262]

Since MS3 does not natively support DBW, and you have a separate DBWX2 box, how is the idle opening % determined?

Does the DBWX2 figure how much idle opening is needed on its own?

Does the MS3 send an idle opening order to the DBWX2?

the DBWx2 can be configured in several ways, right now, I have it configured to just operate the throttle, and not control idle at all, currently, to control idle, I'm using fuel, timing, and when necessary, applying throttle.

The module can be programmed, via a usb port on the module, during initial configuration, there's an option to allow tuning over CAN bus through the MS3 in tunerstudio. once selected, you can program the module's parameters on the fly as you would any other parameter in the MS3.

I use this feature extensively for idle tuning, I can crank the throttle up to 10-12%, then work it down slowly, to a reasonable RPM.

Here's what the main TB table looks like:



you can see another nice little detail that I can change how fast the throttle opens on multiple axis, and I can limit throttle opening to keep things easy until I get the tune a little more dialed.

once I have things a little more dialed in, I will enable idle control, at that point the DBWx2 will recieve commands over CAN bus to adjust throttle position to maintain idle as temperature and load changes.

I was messing around tonight, working on getting idle a bit more dialed. I decided it would be a good idea to check my crank trigger timing offset. I set the entire timing table to 0, and shot it with a timing light, and it was dead nuts. the interesting part:



keep in mind, that was with 9% throttle, but I kept dropping the throttle lower and lower, and slowly bumping the timing up, and seemed to get a decent idle at about 7% throttle. I'm going to change the plugs later and see if that helps at all.

[ericjon262]

Haters will say it's photoshopped... I drove it to work today, probably should have done alot more tuning first, but it made the trip ok, and I datalogged the whole thing so it should go home better than it got to work.



To-do list

Tune
install racetronix fuel tank parts.
Fuel tank vent/expansion tank
fix belt molding.
dyno somewhere in there?

[ericjon262]

Tuning changes made while I was at work made a massive difference, but some of that may be placebo, I capped the throttle at 30% but when I did that, I put it in the 100% accelerator position row, meaning I would have to mat the gas, to get to 30%, while I was at work, I realized this was a terrible idea, because every time I raised the cap, I would have to relearn the throttle, so now, the table looks like this:



I also started looking at acceleration enrichment a little bit closer, previously, AE was based on throttle position only, with the option for MAP based AE. I decided to enable the MAP based AE, I think it is probably a good idea for a five speed car, as the clutch can be manipulated independent of throttle, and cause the engine to require more fuel enrichment. right now, I have the AE split 50/50 TP/MAP, I'll do some playing around with it and see what happens.

I did not drive it to work today, weather forecast calls for rain, my wipers work, but my headlights are terrible at best, I ordered a set of relays from Ballenger Motorsports, and am going to add them into the headlight circuit to get them a more direct path back to the alternator. I have a spare headlight harness that I will rework so I can still drive the car when the weather permits. Honestly, I don't really want to drive it in the rain even with working headlights if I can avoid it. The gear on the driver's side motor is also stripped, so I ordered a pair of Rodney Dickman's headlight gears to replace them, I'll rework both motors when I replace the harness.

I'm having issues with noise on the VSS still:



it's become annoying enough for me to begin looking at modifying a hall effect type sensor to replace the VR sensor on existing currently. I'll get dimensions of the existing sensor, and then see if I can either make an adapter for another sensor, or adapt a generic threaded sensor like this:

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/cra ... aded-body/

I really don't like that one, because there's no connector, and it requires a pull up resistor, it's also not an off the shelf part that I can get anywhere, which could make future replacement difficult, it also has a threaded body, which will have to be sealed somehow.

I think a better option may be to adapt a camshaft position sensor for a LX9, I'm fairly certain it's a smaller diameter than the existing VSS, meaning I should be able to make a bushing for it to fit the F23 five speed, then it just needs to be tabbed for the hold down(s).

I recently discovered that Wilwood manufactures a drum in hat parking brake designed to fit under several of their hats. I've been considering developing a new set of knuckles for the car to accommodate a better(lighter) brake package, so I may shoot them an email and see if they have any useful drawings they I can use for my development. I suspect they will decline, but who knows.

https://www.wilwood.com/Hardware/Bracke ... 9-12660/61

[The Dark Side of Will]

I recently discovered that Wilwood manufactures a drum in hat parking brake designed to fit under several of their hats. I've been considering developing a new set of knuckles for the car to accommodate a better(lighter) brake package, so I may shoot them an email and see if they have any useful drawings they I can use for my development. I suspect they will decline, but who knows.

https://www.wilwood.com/Hardware/Bracke ... 9-12660/61

LOL... So putting all the effort I put into my hot rod parking brake was totally well spent (Damn, there's no maniacal laugh emoji)

Searching the rotors comes back with these results:
https://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorLis ... rtWth=0.81

Quite a few of them caution that they are for drum-in-hat parking brakes. None of them are what I'd call cheap.

E.g. https://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorPro ... =160-10049

This says that the shoe dimension is 7.24". I guess that's workable inside a 12.19" diameter solid [EDIT: one piece] rotor, but it's pretty big.
My unit has a 6.615 (168mm) drum ID which makes enough annulus to have the bolt circle for a two piece rotor in between the P-Brake drum and disk surface.

[ericjon262]

LOL... So putting all the effort I put into my hot rod parking brake was totally well spent (Damn, there's no maniacal laugh emoji)

Searching the rotors comes back with these results:
https://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorLis ... rtWth=0.81

Quite a few of them caution that they are for drum-in-hat parking brakes. None of them are what I'd call cheap.

E.g. https://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorPro ... =160-10049

This says that the shoe dimension is 7.24". I guess that's workable inside a 12.19" diameter solid rotor, but it's pretty big.
My unit has a 6.615 (168mm) drum ID which makes enough annulus to have the bolt circle for a two piece rotor in between the P-Brake drum and disk surface.

I haven't investigated it much further than seeing they exist, and getting a link, I've been looking at two piece rotor options, if I'm gonna do it, may as well do it all the way.

I found there are a few shoe ID's <7", I'd like to use the smallest parts practical for this, keep it as light as possible.

https://www.wilwood.com/Hats/HatList?ap ... 5&mtStyle=

[ericjon262]

I made a sensor mount to install the LX9 cam sensor in the place of the VSS. it's bigger than it needs to be, and has way more available adjustment than needed. I didn't have a good way to measure the angle that the mount would need to be to bolt to the trans, so a slot provided enough adjustment, unfortunately, I made the slot a bit too long, and it hits a boss on one of my other F23's I have, maybe the same boss doesn't exist on the trans in my car? worst case, I take a grinder to it in that area and have an open ended slot.








I wired up a connector with some Tefzel sheilded wire for the signal wire, I plan on installing it later this week, maybe tomorrow?

I also got in new gears for the headlights,

[ericjon262]

I pulled the headlight motors and dropped new gears in, I was told by more than one source that the gears were probably fine and it was just the pins, they were right, but I feel like the new gears are cheap insurance in the long run.



the passenger gear didn't have plastic pins, it had 3 large ball bearings....



I decided a while back to take out the hacked to bits headlight harness I have, and swap in a more clean and neat harness, I've had the harness for a while, and am finally getting to installing it, hopefully between the new gears, and the new harness, I have acceptably crappy headlights. since I had the harness out, I decided it would be a good time to throw some LED "bulbs" in so I won't have to worry about them going out on me ever. I found that the 2057 replacements needed a little bit of trimming on the base to fit.

note that the corner of the base is rounded on the top "bulb" and square on the bottom.



I'm working day shift the rest of the week, so I probably won't finish this up until friday or saturday.

[ericjon262]

the headlight gears are in, and the new headlight harness, the dim headlights are now bright, or as bright as 1985 spec lights can be. I have a set of relays I would like to install to whenever I step up the lights to something a little more modern.

Unfortunately, my driver's side headlight is still not wanting to go up or down, I was hoping the new gear would fix it... then after cycling the switch a couple of times, the passenger side decided to stop as well... erg. at least now I can raise them up and drive, before they were too dim to drive on at all.

if anyone has any pointers for troubleshooting the GEN II headlight setup, I'm all ears.

[ericjon262]

well, I think I found the problems...


the headlight motors have a O-ring in the top under the knob, on the passenger's side motor, this o-ring decided it no longer wanted to be an o-ring, and instead, turned to a gooey mess, which caused the upper portion of the shaft to become sticky, and eventually not work well. it slowed the motor down, and caused it to move very slowly.

I found this out after breaking the motor screws off, trying to remove the motors for inspection. I went to do the driver's side, and they too broke with minimal effort, and that's when I found the insides quite corroded, i also found that the brush retaining plate was only held down by one of the two screws...





then I looked at the two armatures, and saw the commutators... The driver's side appears to have about 1/3 of the brush actually contacting the copper, I suspect this was the root cause of the motor not moving the headlight, it would move, but not with enough force to do anything useful.



now, because I broke all the screws holding mine on, I started looking to see what was out there for another set of motors that either a)work, or b) I can rebuild, then I googled "87 Fiero headlight motors" and realized I could have just bought brand new motors right off the hit and been done with this 2 weeks ago... DOH. I plan to keep my existing metal gears as a just in case item. Yes, I could fix the existing headlights, but for $100 and I don't have to drill and tap tiny little holes, I'll take it.

https://www.amazon.com/Evan-Fischer-EVA ... B07BZHDSX3

[The Dark Side of Will]

Don't you brag about machining everything yourself at work?

Interesting that Rock does not list headlight motors.

[ericjon262]

Don't you brag about machining everything yourself at work?

Interesting that Rock does not list headlight motors.

Lol! There are things I enjoy, fixing a broken 2mm bolt is not one of them...

They may list them under "actuators" or something like that, I haven't looked like I probably should have.

[ericjon262]

well,I got the new motors in. they're spot on.







I installed them, and found the driver's side still being somewhat problematic, but less than before, now it would at least go down, whereas before it wouldn't move at all. I replaced the module with a spare I had, and ta-da! they work!

[pmbrunelle]

Are the cases of those new motors aluminium, or painted plastic?

[ericjon262]

Are the cases of those new motors aluminium, or painted plastic?

They're metal as far as I can tell, I didn't try scratching paint off or anything like that.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Are the cases of those new motors aluminium, or painted plastic?

Think they're more likely aluminum or pot metal?

[pmbrunelle]

Think they're more likely aluminum or pot metal?

I don't know, they could be either one I guess.

Headlight motors like this live a hard life, always running into an end-of-travel stop.

On power steerings, a fair amount of effort is used to study the foreseeable (mis)use case of some jackass running the steering full speed into the steering stops. The motor (with its inertia) has to come to a sudden stop; this creates a torque spike, which can break things.

In prototypes (not production yet), we have studied plastic gearbox cases. The "cushion" is helpful in reducing the torque spike. The plastic case can have enough cushion that adding an explicit cushion (like the rubbers in Fiero headlight gears) as with a metal-cased gearbox may not be necessary.

For a gearbox case that spends its life smashing into hard stops, the worst combination of material properties is stiff, but not strong.

[ericjon262]

I made some significant changes to the tune, and how I go about tuning the car. Considering I'm currently running the car on the gate, with a 2 pound spring, and the throttle limited to 30%, it didn't make much sense to have a fuel or ignition table that goes to 300 KPA, so I enabled table switching and and rescaled the main fuel and spark tables to atmospheric pressures, and enabled the expanded tables at 100 KPA, with both tables having matching 100 KPA rows. the weather is pretty nasty right now, if it's nice when I get off work tomorrow morning, I'll take it for a drive and see how it feels. I did start the car up on these changes, and it did feel a little smoother, but that could be a self fulfilling prophecy.