Engine Swaps

[Dryfter_09_19]

Ok, after reading and looking around a lot, I've noticed that a lot of people do N* or 3800 swaps... My question is why do those swaps when you can throw in a 350 small block? I'm not very familiar with the N* swap but I think the 3800SC only pushes around 240 and thats SC... So again... why not throw in a 350 thats above that with (i think) 250 or more. Correct me if I'm mistaken... But thats my two cents on this whole thing. Try to be nice, I'm not an engine swap guru.

[JamesCurtis]

I'll put it nicely, not alot of people on this forum are sbc fans.

[stimpy]

Because I'd have to do business with an jackass named V8Archie? I'd sooner put cigars out on my eyeballs then ever let a dime of mine find a way into that jerks pockets.

In addition to that little flaw, my car was comissioned by the previous owner with the plan of being a California car. A taxicab motor in a Fiero would never pass smog due to the laws regarding only being able to put powerplants (engine+transaxle) that came from the factory in a passenger vehicle in the same configuration as it would be used in the recipient vehicle.

Now that GM is building the Impala and the Bonneville with the 5.3, that does open up possibilities, but for now it's more cost efficient to use a proven swap rather then re-invent the wheel.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Which SBC's otehr then LT1's and LS1's are rated higher then the 3800 S/C?

80's and early 90's TPI L98 motors had a max of 240 rated hp. Same as the SC motor.

A SBC doesnt' mean you are fast. In fact the 3800 is probably the fastest swap out right now when modded. It dominates the SBC.

SBC needs a kit to install. 3.8 and n star don't.

SBC is old tech man. Much better engine tech out there now.

THe only v8 I would install in a Fiero would be an LS1 or a N star.

There are prob some SBC swaps out there that I would give a run in my little 2.8 v6.

[Aaron]

You also need to take into account weight. An iron block, iron head SBC is going to weigh A LOT more than a 3800SC L67 or a N*. TPI may not be iron headed, but it is still heavy.

Furthermore, the TPI V8 (Most common V8 swap), is not exactly a thriller to drive. It runs out of power above 4500rpm. The other 2 may not be high end monsters, but the L67 will hold power to 6000, and the N8 will pull to 6500-7000, stock.

350 small blocks aren't the shit, especially in a Fiero. The swap is dificult, really expensive, heavy, and yields unimpressive results.

[eHoward]

There's nothing wrong with the SBC. Lots of power, lots of aftermarket support, cheap power. I dig the LS2 if you want to go modern.

That being said, it's a more complicated swap then a 3800SC.

I also did business once with V8Archie and will not do business again with him. I would engineer my own "kit" if I wanted to go that route.

Because I'd have to do business with an jackass named V8Archie? I'd sooner put cigars out on my eyeballs then ever let a dime of mine find a way into that jerks pockets.

if I put a SBC in a fiero, it would be anything but stock. and I'm not talking about a valve cover swap.

[eHoward]

Have you driven or even ridden in a SBC powered fiero with a strong motor?

When you get back into your 2.8 powered one, you'll think something's broken! Give me a break!

350 small blocks aren't the shit, especially in a Fiero. The swap i... yields unimpressive results.

[rockcrawl]

You also need to take into account weight. An iron block, iron head SBC is going to weigh A LOT more than a 3800SC L67 or a N*. TPI may not be iron headed, but it is still heavy.

Be careful what you say. Those are all heavy engines. It's not to hard to find a SBC that weighs less than a N* or 3.4DOHC V6, and the 3800SC is just a few pounds lighter than those. BTW, the TPI engines all had iron heads AFAIK.

Furthermore, the TPI V8 (Most common V8 swap),

Stop right there! I'm pretty sure carbed V8 Fieros out-number TPIs by a good margin. pity.

The swap is dificult, really expensive, heavy, and yields unimpressive results.

That can be said for most any swap. If northstar swaps were cheap and easy we'd all have one, plus they're not light, and IMO they're not that impressive either.

There is far too wide a range of SBCs available for you to make such generalizations.

[JamesCurtis]

yields unimpressive results.

You don't actually believe all the words that you type do you? Someone needs a ride in a 383 fiero. A guy passing through Nebraska stopped by at a truck stop and gave me a ride in the fiero, talk about a rush. I think aaron needs to get strapped into a sbc fiero and see what it feels like, instead of contemplating what it would feel like.

[crzyone]

yields unimpressive results.

Fastest car I've ever been in was a 406 powered formula. It dyno'd at 430rwhp, most insane thing I've ever experienced. Nothing but rubber and voluntary powerslides in 3rd gear.

[crzyone]

I picked the N* because it is exotic. Nothing is cooler sounding than 4.6L Aluminum DOHC V-8. It has good aftermarket and seems to have a bullet proof bottom end. My 2003 N* has a forged crank from the factory. 300hp on 87 octane is worth braging about as well.

I've heard conflicting thoughts on the weight of a N*, this link shows the weight of a long block N* without exhaust or accessories.

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/053372.html

I love the way a N* fills an engine bay. Like it was designed for a fiero :thumbleft:

[teamlseep13]

I picked the N* because it is exotic. Nothing is cooler sounding than 4.6L Aluminum DOHC V-8. It has good aftermarket and seems to have a bullet proof bottom end. My 2003 N* has a forged crank from the factory. 300hp on 87 octane is worth braging about as well.

I've heard conflicting thoughts on the weight of a N*, this link shows the weight of a long block N* without exhaust or accessories.

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/053372.html

I love the way a N* fills an engine bay. Like it was designed for a fiero :thumbleft:

Northstar exotic? In a Fiero, but it's been in Caddys a long time.

As for the SBC, just think of torque to weight ratio. I think any SBC swap will have over 275 ft-lbs, most of them over 300. That plus the low gear ratios of our tranny's = tire shredding fun.
And the SBC is the best supported engine out there, is stupid easy to make power and its reliable.
Weight is a huge factor to me, so...unless i wanted to spend $$$ on an aluminum SBC, alum. heads and keep it all light.....its not for me.

[stimpy]

As for the SBC, just think of torque to weight ratio. I think any SBC swap will have over 275 ft-lbs, most of them over 300. That plus the low gear ratios of our tranny's = tire shredding fun.
.

Yep, tire shredding, axle snapping, gear busting fun. It's only money, right?

[Aaron]

yields unimpressive results.

You don't actually believe all the words that you type do you? Someone needs a ride in a 383 fiero. A guy passing through Nebraska stopped by at a truck stop and gave me a ride in the fiero, talk about a rush. I think aaron needs to get strapped into a sbc fiero and see what it feels like, instead of contemplating what it would feel like.

240hp is not impressive, and I can say this after taking a long ride in a modded 3800SC in a Fiero. I wasn't that impressed.

Yes, carbed SBCs do outnumber the TPIs, my mistake :thumbleft:

Fastest car I've ever been in was a 1350rwhp Ford Coupe with a blown Merlin motor. He lit up the tires going 135mph and punching it. And it had 14in street slicks. It wasn't very fast, but it could have been.

Fastest car I've driven was a 675hp SL65 AMG, and that to the point where I would get out and walk away, whereas the first time I drove it I got out shaking. It basically got to the point where I would've liked to have 800hp instead of the 675.

What I'm getting at is that 300hp can be had much easier, cheaper, and lighter form a 3.4 DOHC, L67, or N*.

[The Dark Side of Will]

BTW, the TPI engines all had iron heads AFAIK.

F-body TPI's had iron heads. Corvettes had aluminum heads.

[crzyone]

Northstar exotic? In a Fiero, but it's been in Caddys a long time.

Thats kinda what I was hinting at.

The N* has no business being in a caddy. 10.5-1 compression, all aluminum, dohc, bottom end capable of 10k rpm.... Do you think an average caddy driver cares about any of that?

Its exotic in a fiero. The N* was detuned to make 300hp, with chrfab's cams and springs the motor is good for 375hp and 8500rpm. Thats without touching the heads and using chrfab's mild cams... With a port job and their wild cams I'm sure it would be well over 400hp.

[whipped]

The N* has no business being in a caddy. 10.5-1 compression, all aluminum, dohc, bottom end capable of 10k rpm.... Do you think an average caddy driver cares about any of that?

The engines weren't even floored on a regular basis, so they got a buildup of carbon on the pistons and combustion chambers. Caused a knock when the piston contacted the carbon on the CC and rocked in the cylinder.

There was even a TSB issued on this. Point is, they're happy living at 6000+rpm, but start breaking in grandma's cars'

[Kohburn]

The N* has no business being in a caddy. 10.5-1 compression, all aluminum, dohc, bottom end capable of 10k rpm.... Do you think an average caddy driver cares about any of that?

The engines weren't even floored on a regular basis, so they got a buildup of carbon on the pistons and combustion chambers. Caused a knock when the piston contacted the carbon on the CC and rocked in the cylinder.

There was even a TSB issued on this. Point is, they're happy living at 6000+rpm, but start breaking in grandma's cars'

the 4p9 was the best thing for the caddy - tons of low rpm torque and no top end - perfect for a sluggish automatic driven by grandma

[Pyrthian]

and theres also the trans. noone wants to keep that shitty TH125 auto trans. so, a nice 3800SC with 4-spd auto & ecm is a full deal kick ass package.
yeah, the 350 is a fun way to go. but these days, wound up 4 bangers are running rings around the old lumbering V8s while getting 2x the fuel milage.

[JamesCurtis]

240hp is not impressive

I wasn't talking about 3800's, i was talking about fun to ride/drive built sbc's in a fiero, not bone a bone stock 6 cylinder.