EcoTec Fiero...It Has Begun

teamlseep13 · Post by **teamlseep13** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:02 am

Week ago I picked up my 2004 Cavalier Ecotec, 5 speed transmission, wiring harness, ECM, axles, shifter, guage pod and mounts. Paid $1380, has 39k on it, rollover accident.

So now I have torn the engine down, all the bearings look great, like they are almost brand new.
Started to clean the block up, deburr it, enlarge oil passages and stuff like that. The block weights 60lbs.

I am gonna upgrade the rods, pistons and rings. That will handle up to 400 hp, though I won't be making more than 300. Plan on lightly porting the heads, nothing too major just a good cleanup, 5-angle valve job, new SS valves and then assemble it and get it running.
As for mounting it, it will just take 4 mounts, or more if I want to. Shouldn't be too hard to get in place, just need to get axles that will fit the tranny and the Fiero hub.

I plan on down the road, 2 months or so, to turbo it. Around 8-10psi, nothing huge, considering this engine will weight at least 100lbs less than the Duke, and be making about 240-270hp. Should be fun!

I will post some pics on here, but for now, here are some uploaded pics on Webshots. Ciao

http://community.webshots.com/album/493910615XzzZFw/0

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:46 am

Awesome :thumbleft:
So you'll be running the Cavalier 5 speed? Is that transmission the same as the earlier Cavalier Isuzus but with a different bellhousing, or something totally new?

teamlseep13 · Post by **teamlseep13** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:07 pm

Ya, I figured it will be easier to make mounts for the transmission that I know works with the engine rather than trying to adapt it to a Fiero transmission, and I only have the Izuzu.
The 5 speed from the Cavalier is a made by Getrag, so its not the same as the earlier Cav's. All the manuals that are mated with the Ecotec are 5 speed Getrag units.

TurboGT · Post by **TurboGT** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:03 pm

A while ago I looked into swaping that motor into my car. Here are some things I found when I looked into the swap.

Good luck with the swap and keep us updated. :thumbleft:

Have you checked out the Ecotec forum?

http://www.ecotecpower.com/forums/

Do you have the Eoctec build book wrote by GM? The File is very large ~27Mb takes a while do download.

http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource ... d_book.pdf

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:40 pm

thats cool, looks like the ecotec has an open deck and siamesed cylinders. how much boost are they running on these without putting a deck in?

teamlseep13 · Post by **teamlseep13** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:26 am

Ya, I check over at ecotecpower.com and I got that builk book, thanks.

They run the stock block up to 400hp before they take out the liners and put in different ones, add SS o-rings and a copper head gasket. Only when they hit 600 do they even go to a full race prepped GM block.

I won't even be thinking of hitting over 300 for a while so I am happy with a slightly worked on block with stock liners.

I will keep this updated as it comes along. I plan to get the engine in be the end of Novemeber. Thanks for the support.

TurboGT · Post by **TurboGT** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:16 pm

Do you have any updates? Is it running??

Side note: Do you know if the trans off of the eco is stronger than our 5 speed getrag??

willie · Post by **willie** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:28 pm

There was a Solstice with hardtop, snazzy bodywork and a turbo 325 BHP Ecotec at the SEMA show - damn, I might one day be interested in one of those puppies!

v6h.o. · Post by **v6h.o.** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:39 pm

I'm in the process of building up a 300+ HP Turbo ecotec for a customer right now. Eagle Rods, Wiseco Pistons. I custom made a torque plate for it and had it torque plate bored/honed due to its an alum block and will need to have it done.
ARP head studs, Fully ported and polished head by myself and full Ferrea Stainless valves with Titanium retainers. LZ camshafts as well as GMPP Adjustable cam gears.
Using a Mitsu "Big" 16G from Forced Performance to boost it.

As to the transmission questions. The trans that is mated to the Ecotec is a Getrag 5spd. Its the same Getrag thats been used in the Jbodies since 2000 model year.

Sorry to say but that getrag is junk. The shift forks bend and break all the time in it and the synchro's will get fucked due to that. I'm a GM tech and we rebuild/replace them all the time.

Pic of a worn/bent shift fork:

However you CAN get a Quaife LSD for that Getrag. I did a full trans rebuild for a good friend of mine who Imported the Quaife from the UK to put in his 2001 Getrag race built 2.4L Cavalier. Its a fucking sweet unit.

Pics of the Quaife when I did his trans rebuild:

The inner workings of a quaife:

I just had to open it up and see inside. teehehe.

willie · Post by **willie** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:50 pm

So why don't we see lots of bent forks in the Getrag used in the Fiero - different model, or hamfisted drivers?

The Quaiffe is a nice unit - I use one in my British race car, but the Fiero with it's weight distribution can put a lot of power down before needing an LSD nearly as bad as a conventional front engined car. And with a 325 BHP Ecotec, I dare say there wouldn't be tooo much low down torque to worry about (not like a V8, for instance).

v6h.o. · Post by **v6h.o.** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:59 pm

willie wrote:So why don't we see lots of bent forks in the Getrag used in the Fiero - different model, or hamfisted drivers?

Our getrag the old HM282 (If I'm reading what your refering to right) Is a completely different Getrag transmision. Your right we don't see alot of bent forks ever. They're pretty stout.

These new getrags the 287? model IIRC, units use a shitty weak fork. Even regular customers off the street with bone stock cars and people who do not shift hard have bent and fucked them over.

Just advising some words of caution here thats all.

TurboGT · Post by **TurboGT** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:25 pm

I know a guy that will make an adapter to mate the eco to our fiero trany for ~ $325. I dont know if he still makes them Ceticars@aol.com I dont know him personally, I found him when I was thinking about the swap.

custom made a torque plate for it and had it torque plate bored/honed due to its an alum block and will need to have it done.

What exactly did you do here? Got pics??

v6h.o. · Post by **v6h.o.** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:40 am

TurboGT wrote:What exactly did you do here? Got pics??

I don't have any pics of it. I guess I should take some sometime. Basically took the stock HG and had a metal shop lazer cut the same template as the HG on 3 pieces of 1/3 inch thick steel plate. (due to they couldn't cut one big Inch thick plate they said) Then took all 3 pieces bolted them together to hold firmly tight and seam welded them all together to form one big large thick plate.

Used a set of 60v6 head bolts (funny enough they were the exact length) to get the right depth down in the block threads and due to the torque plate being thinner than the depth of the head. to bolt it to the block.

Had the machine shop then after the plates were welded as one mill the torque plate to get a true surface. Had them bolt it to the block with the supplied bolts, torqued to the factory specs, And then had them bore/hone the block with the plate attached to simulate the stresses the head bolts place on the block when the head is bolted to the block. This way the bores are completely true when the head is bolted on and engine is together. You can actually see in some blocks the wear pattern from stresses that a head bolted on does to distort the block.
Pretty much had to be done with the block being aluminum and pressed in liners.

I also have a 3.4L bore Torque plate made up as well.

TurboGT · Post by **TurboGT** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:32 am

Very intresting :thumbleft:

I have access to a wire edm at my school, I will have to try and make one when I do my next motor. Nice thing about the wire edm is I can do 1" metal.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:18 pm

Torque plates really need to be thicker than 1".
My machinist says most of the ones he sees are 2".
The laser I have access to can do 3/4" material. I'm going to have two of these made and epoxy them together to make a 1.5" torque plate.

I really don't think the head is all that rigid...

Personally, if I were doing an Ecotec swap, I'd hunt down the turbo version of the engine from the Saab 9-3. It is already built for boost and comes with a FGP-40 6 speed transmission that's rated for 300 ftlbs.

TurboGT · Post by **TurboGT** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:37 pm

Personally, if I were doing an Ecotec swap, I'd hunt down the turbo version of the engine from the Saab 9-3. It is already built for boost and comes with a FGP-40 6 speed transmission that's rated for 300 ftlbs.

I thought of this also a 6 sp would be awsome, the other benifit would be that the heads are cnc proted from the factory

teamlseep13 · Post by **teamlseep13** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:07 pm

The weak point int he Getrag is the shift forks but nothing some creative machining can fix. I know a few local machine shops would fab me some up if I really start having a problem.
6 speed would be sweet but I havent found one yet.

v6h.o. · Post by **v6h.o.** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:58 pm

The only problem with the shift fork fab stuff is you'll have to have them make something on the end or bush the transmission as it has no bushings for the forks. they use plastic slider ends on each side of the shift fork.

Its fucking retarded. They have each fork with the plastic sliders moulded onto them.

teamlseep13 · Post by **teamlseep13** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:08 am

Moly impregnated Nylon works great for those types of apps, and its easy to machine. Plus I have a whole lot of it hangin around form maching bushings for the control arms. I will try that.

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:43 am

v6h.o. wrote:The only problem with the shift fork fab stuff is you'll have to have them make something on the end or bush the transmission as it has no bushings for the forks. they use plastic slider ends on each side of the shift fork.

Its fucking retarded. They have each fork with the plastic sliders moulded onto them.

Are those pics of the 5 speed? Dual layshaft? The gears look beefy.