http://www.armstrongmywire.com/news/rea ... 31&lang=en
Miami Police Take New Tack Against Terror
Monday, November 28, 2005 3:45 PM EST
The Associated Press
By CURT ANDERSON
MIAMI (AP) — Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.
Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.
"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.
The operations will keep terrorists off guard, Fernandez said. He said al-Qaida and other terrorist groups plot attacks by putting places under surveillance and watching for flaws and patterns in security.
Police Chief John Timoney said there was no specific, credible threat of an imminent terror attack in Miami. But he said the city has repeatedly been mentioned in intelligence reports as a potential target.
Timoney also noted that 14 of the 19 hijackers who took part in the Sept. 11 attacks lived in South Florida at various times and that other alleged terror cells have operated in the area.
Both uniformed and plainclothes police will ride buses and trains, while others will conduct longer-term surveillance operations.
"People are definitely going to notice it," Fernandez said. "We want that shock. We want that awe. But at the same time, we don't want people to feel their rights are being threatened. We need them to be our eyes and ears."
Mary Ann Viverette, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, said the Miami program is similar to those used for years during the holiday season to deter criminals at busy places such as shopping malls.
"You want to make your presence known and that's a great way to do it," said Viverette, police chief in Gaithersburg, Md. "We want people to feel they can go about their normal course of business, but we want them to be aware."
Your concerned leader
Diggity"Told ya"Biggity
Get ready to surrender your rights
Moderator: ericjon262
Again.. If Chicago gets hit with a suitcase nuke, people are going to cry "Why didnt the government know / prevent / follow up on susipcions more!! Why didnt we let the FBI have more wiretap power / hold without substantial evidence / spy on suspected terrorist / racially profile / etc!"
Most (voting) people that live here hold safety (ie no interruptions in the daily TV watching) higher than their right to be a part of a random ID search. Probably higher than most of their privacy concerns. Hell for that matter, most probably would love to have "Real World" come and film their entire private lives.
In reality you are complaining that a democracy is not suited to individual tastes. Who said it would be?
The only credible argument I see to any of these politcal posts is suspicions that the democratic mass is being persuaded unethically. Whos to really say if it really is unethical though.
Most (voting) people that live here hold safety (ie no interruptions in the daily TV watching) higher than their right to be a part of a random ID search. Probably higher than most of their privacy concerns. Hell for that matter, most probably would love to have "Real World" come and film their entire private lives.
In reality you are complaining that a democracy is not suited to individual tastes. Who said it would be?
The only credible argument I see to any of these politcal posts is suspicions that the democratic mass is being persuaded unethically. Whos to really say if it really is unethical though.
People want to see them look like they are, so they are.crzyone wrote:The Federalies are comming to get us!
In all seriousless, like terrorists are going to care if a bank or hotel gets randomly checked... I think its so it looks like they are trying, however lame it actually is.
One of the problems that the FBI has is finding people. From what I understand, the FBI/NSA gathers all sorts of good information on who is who and doing what. They have a hard time trying to find the people associated with the names / aliases though. This dragnet, however simple it seems, will hopefully snare a few individuals who are trying to remain unlocated and getting money from their friends overseas.
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Series8217
- 1988 Fiero Track Car
- Posts: 5989
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
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DiggityBiggity
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DiggityBiggity
Innocent until proven guilty... if you haven't broken the law, there is no need to be ARRESTED and have to show an I.D.aaron wrote:OH NOES!!!!
OMFGNOES!!!
A cop checking my ID?
HOLY GOD FUCK, there go all my rights.
Seriously dude, big fucking deal, its a cop checking an id.
And yes.. technically, if you've done nothing wrong, and are being held up in order to show an I.D. for nothing, they are arresting your movement... it is a violation of your rights
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DiggityBiggity
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DiggityBiggity
No shit it's stupid... It's only in place to keep clamping down the thought pattern that the police have total control, and Americans have no rights... if they tried to do anything like this a couple years back, Americans would be outraged... now it's "ok" to protect us from "terrorism". It's fucking bullshit. Those who would give up freedom for security, neither deserve freedom, nor are they secure.JohnnyK wrote:Thats actually one of the stupidest plans I've ever heard of. Thats my deep thought.
Your concerned leader
Diggity"How do you cook a frog? Slowly turn up the heat"Biggity
I say this with no vex, so let's see if can refrain from unwarranted criticism. You don't have a problem with this kind of over-policing due to your ignorance of the legal system, US Constitution and more specifically, the standards of proof. I will detail them for you.aaron wrote:OH NOES!!!!
OMFGNOES!!!
A cop checking my ID?
HOLY GOD FUCK, there go all my rights.
Seriously dude, big fucking deal, its a cop checking an id.
Reasonable Suspicion - 10%
- government can detain if they feel a crime is afoot. They can detain for very short periods of time. They can perform a Terry v Ohio, "Pat and Frisk" check for officer safety.
Probable Cause - 25%
- government can detain for a little longer time. This is your basic traffic stop. They can check ID and establish other simple facts.
Preponderance - over 50%
- This is teh civil standard of proof for civil trials. Anything over 50% of *proof* is sufficient for a finding of responsible.
Beyond a Reasonable Doubt - 90%
- This is the criminal standard of proof. The more money a person has, the higher the bar, but the juries must decide if the evidence weighs in at BRD for a fonding of guilt.
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SO with this, and if we decide not to trash the US Constitution, it is a 4th violation to conduct these searches. But hell, AZ has been doing DUI roadblock checks w/o PC for over a decade, so why bring in this little COnst issie now?
Re: Get ready to surrender your rights
"We want that shock. We want that awe. But at the same time, we don't want people to feel their rights are being threatened."DiggityBiggity wrote:http://www.armstrongmywire.com/news/rea ... 31&lang=en
Miami Police Take New Tack Against Terror
Monday, November 28, 2005 3:45 PM EST
The Associated Press
By CURT ANDERSON
MIAMI (AP) — Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.
Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.
"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.
The operations will keep terrorists off guard, Fernandez said. He said al-Qaida and other terrorist groups plot attacks by putting places under surveillance and watching for flaws and patterns in security.
Police Chief John Timoney said there was no specific, credible threat of an imminent terror attack in Miami. But he said the city has repeatedly been mentioned in intelligence reports as a potential target.
Timoney also noted that 14 of the 19 hijackers who took part in the Sept. 11 attacks lived in South Florida at various times and that other alleged terror cells have operated in the area.
Both uniformed and plainclothes police will ride buses and trains, while others will conduct longer-term surveillance operations.
"People are definitely going to notice it," Fernandez said. "We want that shock. We want that awe. But at the same time, we don't want people to feel their rights are being threatened. We need them to be our eyes and ears."
Mary Ann Viverette, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, said the Miami program is similar to those used for years during the holiday season to deter criminals at busy places such as shopping malls.
"You want to make your presence known and that's a great way to do it," said Viverette, police chief in Gaithersburg, Md. "We want people to feel they can go about their normal course of business, but we want them to be aware."
Your concerned leader
Diggity"Told ya"Biggity
You can't have it both ways. People will be shocked and awed, hence feel their privacy is not all there.
zonyl wrote: Again.. If Chicago gets hit with a suitcase nuke, people are going to cry "Why didnt the government know / prevent / follow up on susipcions more!! Why didnt we let the FBI have more wiretap power / hold without substantial evidence / spy on suspected terrorist / racially profile / etc!"
Most (voting) people that live here hold safety (ie no interruptions in the daily TV watching) higher than their right to be a part of a random ID search. Probably higher than most of their privacy concerns. Hell for that matter, most probably would love to have "Real World" come and film their entire private lives.
In reality you are complaining that a democracy is not suited to individual tastes. Who said it would be?
The only credible argument I see to any of these politcal posts is suspicions that the democratic mass is being persuaded unethically. Whos to really say if it really is unethical though.
Again.. If Chicago gets hit with a suitcase nuke, people are going to cry "Why didnt the government know / prevent / follow up on susipcions more!! Why didnt we let the FBI have more wiretap power / hold without substantial evidence / spy on suspected terrorist / racially profile / etc!"
People for different groups are going to cry no matter what happens, so shall we make these issues about crying or finding that rung on the bar of privacy versus safety that, A) the people vote in directly, not via some bribed politician and, B) as prescribed by the US Constitution?
Most (voting) people that live here hold safety (ie no interruptions in the daily TV watching) higher than their right to be a part of a random ID search.
Based upon???????? Your opinion. I think people want to be safe, but the minute they get their privacy violated the lawsuits fly, so I think it’s fair to assert that most people don’t understand that there is s proportional tradeoff between privacy and safety.
Probably higher than most of their privacy concerns.
Right, until it’s their privacy that’s being trashed, then it’s, “hold the fucking phone.â€
txf wrote:In all seriousness how often are they going to "hit" the same bank twice? So they wait for a hit THEN start survalence. Too many holes in that plan.
Right, the intent to protect is just a silly rationalization. Furthermore, as I wrote in teh previous post, I believe all of the 19 911 terrorists were here legally, so that would do nothing.
This reminds me of the logic behind the Chandler Hispanic Roundup. Yep, Chandler Sheriff Bobby Joe Harris, former, after he refused to fire Chandler Pig Lovelace after his second murder, then ironically Lovelace sued Harris after the pig couldn't get his job back, rounded up all the Hispanic-looking people downtown w/o checking ID, took them downtown ans sorted them out. Problem is that there were several US-born Hispancs in there, some greencarded, and some illegals. As I recall, that cost the city about 8 million.zonyl wrote:People want to see them look like they are, so they are.crzyone wrote:The Federalies are comming to get us!
In all seriousless, like terrorists are going to care if a bank or hotel gets randomly checked... I think its so it looks like they are trying, however lame it actually is.
One of the problems that the FBI has is finding people. From what I understand, the FBI/NSA gathers all sorts of good information on who is who and doing what. They have a hard time trying to find the people associated with the names / aliases though. This dragnet, however simple it seems, will hopefully snare a few individuals who are trying to remain unlocated and getting money from their friends overseas.
I assume you are conservative, Zonyl, so with that I was under the assumotion that cons were supposed to be for small, unintrusive government.....