Turbocharging a 3800SC??

Chris-Nelson · Post by **Chris-Nelson** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:18 pm

I've had this idea for a while, and I'd like to pursue it sometime in the future.

What do you think about getting a built 3800sc and turbocharging it?
If I did this I would get a junked supercharger and gut it out and machine it all smooth inside. I would use the empty supercharger as the turbo-fed intake manifold. Obviously you could just get an N/A intake manifold and replace the SC with that, but I think the SC being fed by a turbo would look great! :la:

I am pretty sure this is what FieroX has done except he used a custom intake manifold. Would this be a waste of time, or even very plausible?

Turbocharging the L67 this way (with the old supercharger housing) would also let you use the zzp intercooler for the SC and it should work pretty well.

A downfall that I could see that after the SC is gutted, all of a sudden there is a lot of open space in there to pressurize and would possibly make the whole event a waste of time. Obviously since the turbo and SC produce boost differently, the PROM would have to be custom also.

I would love to get into another boosted car. Boost is addicting!

Chris-Nelson · Post by **Chris-Nelson** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:25 pm

for reference of what the L67 blower internals look like:

I could always fabricate a smooth wall that divides the inside of the SC housing so that it directly moves air the shortest route downward... :scratch:

product1620 · Post by **product1620** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:30 pm

Ive seen this done to a Cobra Mustang, and it made good power.

The Dark Side of Will · Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:34 pm

While it could be done, it's not the easiest way of doing things.

FieroX is using the SC manifold with SC intercooler and custom upper manifold. He no longer has the SC case.

Sinister is using L67 short block with L36 heads and Camaro intake manifold and an air-air intercooler. His car was very cheap to put together and runs low 12's.

If I were going to build a turbo L67 (don't know why I'd want to...) I'd do it Sinister's way.

The weight conscious would find a 3500 and turbo that. You might have to build it, but you'll have to open an L67 up to make serious power anyway. The 3500 will always be lighter than the L67, and, within reason, can make as much power.

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:58 pm

http://zzperformance.com/grand_prix/pro ... php?id=497

Chris-Nelson · Post by **Chris-Nelson** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:29 am

what motor is the L36?

product1620 · Post by **product1620** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:33 am

The L36 is the non-supercharged 3800v6.

Chris-Nelson · Post by **Chris-Nelson** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:04 am

gotcha. Ok, so what is the point of using the L36 heads on top of a L37 block?

product1620 · Post by **product1620** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:17 am

Chris-Nelson wrote:gotcha. Ok, so what is the point of using the L36 heads on top of a L67 block?

-fixed

So you can use the L36 intake on the already built for boost L67 block.

Fierocious · Post by **Fierocious** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:56 am

I can get you a block off plate for the m90 for dirty cheap. I <3 your clean rotors

nocutt · Post by **nocutt** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:48 am

If I did this I would get a junked supercharger and gut it out and machine it all smooth inside. I would use the empty supercharger as the turbo-fed intake manifold. Obviously you could just get an N/A intake manifold and replace the SC with that, but I think the SC being fed by a turbo would look great!... Would this be a waste of time, or even very plausible?

IMO looking great is only for aesthetic purposes...the NA intake would function much better...you can distribute the air charge more effectively...

Turbocharging the L67 this way (with the old supercharger housing) would also let you use the zzp intercooler for the SC and it should work pretty well.

Not really...but the issue would become that of semantics...I personally think you cannot put a big enough core for it to trully be very efficient/effective!?!? (but then again it is a fiero...bah semantics)

A downfall that I could see that after the SC is gutted, all of a sudden there is a lot of open space in there to pressurize and would possibly make the whole event a waste of time.

If you are on a budget it is a cheaper way to go as long as you understand the repercussions...

Obviously since the turbo and SC produce boost differently, the PROM would have to be custom also.

The PCM/Engine is both MAP and MAF based...you will be fine using a 'suck thru' setup on the stock calibration/hardware until about 400hp. This is based on the 2-bar map or 330* g/s flow rating...which ever comes first...

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:17 am

Chris-Nelson wrote:gotcha. Ok, so what is the point of using the L36 heads on top of a L37 block?

The L67 injectors are in the heads because the SC is so wide they couldn't stay in the intake. The L36 intake has injector bungs in it. Use the L36 heads so you don't have two sets of injector bungs.

HOWEVER, if you REALLY go hog wild building the engine, and throw down the $$$ for an engine management that can handle it, you could use L67 heads with L36 intake and have dual injectors per cylinder with factory hardware.

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:19 am

nocutt wrote:
A downfall that I could see that after the SC is gutted, all of a sudden there is a lot of open space in there to pressurize and would possibly make the whole event a waste of time.

If you are on a budget it is a cheaper way to go as long as you understand the repercussions...

Sinister ought to chime in on this one. He built the above-mentioned L67/L36 hybrid VERY cheaply. After all, it's just stock parts you can get from a junk yard... nothing custom or special.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:27 am

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
Chris-Nelson wrote:gotcha. Ok, so what is the point of using the L36 heads on top of a L37 block?
The L67 injectors are in the heads because the SC is so wide they couldn't stay in the intake. The L36 intake has injector bungs in it. Use the L36 heads so you don't have two sets of injector bungs.

HOWEVER, if you REALLY go hog wild building the engine, and throw down the $$$ for an engine management that can handle it, you could use L67 heads with L36 intake and have dual injectors per cylinder with factory hardware.

is the impedence of the injectors too high to run double injectors?

The Dark Side of Will · Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:54 am

If you run them in series, you'll get half the current through each one and they won't open in a consistent manner. If you run them in parallel, you'll double the current requirements from the driver. I'm not sure if it will handle this or not. Maybe one of our resident electronic geniouses will chime in.

darkhorizon · Post by **darkhorizon** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:56 pm

Bah, you guys are clueless

Running a turbo into a gutted supercharger housing is very easy, and works very well. The L67 block, heads, LIM, 42# injectors, and a stock GM OBD2-gen2 PCM, is all you need to run a turbo setup.

would also let you use the zzp intercooler for the SC and it should work pretty well.

That intercooler is horribly inefficent, and a FMIC style air to air setup would work a ton better, not to mention a good $1000 cheaper.

A gutted supercharger housing is larger than it needs to be, but I would doubt if you would see any preformance or boost differeances by going to a custom intake, or my favorite, a 97 camaro intake.

the PROM would have to be custom also.

I doubt it would be worth your time to mess with running obd1 anyway, as a powertuner would make for easy obd2 tuning, with a bit more flexability for novice live tuning. Hardly any modifications to the timing/MAF tables have to be made, a 3bar map sensor table is about all you NEED to put in there as I asume that you are running more than 14psi.

The best turbo setup for a longblock would include:

1. a stock L67 bottom end, with a cam designed for a turbo.
2 heads from a L36 with 105# springs
3. intake manifold from a 3800 camaro with trottle body
4 maf sensor from a N* or LS1
5. 3 bar map sensor
6. 42 lb injectors
7. air to air intercooler
8. Turbo exhaust derived from the stock manifolds.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:13 pm

darkhorizon wrote:Bah, you guys are clueless

Running a turbo into a gutted supercharger housing is very easy, and works very well. The L67 block, heads, LIM, 42# injectors, and a stock GM OBD2-gen2 PCM, is all you need to run a turbo setup.

would also let you use the zzp intercooler for the SC and it should work pretty well.
That intercooler is horribly inefficent, and a FMIC style air to air setup would work a ton better, not to mention a good $1000 cheaper.

A gutted supercharger housing is larger than it needs to be, but I would doubt if you would see any preformance or boost differeances by going to a custom intake, or my favorite, a 97 camaro intake.

the PROM would have to be custom also.
I doubt it would be worth your time to mess with running obd1 anyway, as a powertuner would make for easy obd2 tuning, with a bit more flexability for novice live tuning. Hardly any modifications to the timing/MAF tables have to be made, a 3bar map sensor table is about all you NEED to put in there as I asume that you are running more than 14psi.

The best turbo setup for a longblock would include:

1. a stock L67 bottom end, with a cam designed for a turbo.
2 heads from a L36 with 105# springs
3. intake manifold from a 3800 camaro with trottle body
4 maf sensor from a N* or LS1
5. 3 bar map sensor
6. 42 lb injectors
7. air to air intercooler
8. Turbo exhaust derived from the stock manifolds.

you talk about a gutten supercharger working very well then talk about inneficiencies of other items.. a gutten supercharger is going to flow like shit - or should i say inefficiently

he could start out with everything from a 3800sc without the SC. and drop an 3800 n/a intake on it with half the holes plugged properly... with a turbo and a real intercooler and be done..

42# injectors are an upgrade - using a gutten SC is a downgrade

heck a simple welded tube intake like fieroX is going to cost under 100$ and be a lot better flowing

but i fail to see how anything said made us clueless? :fart:

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:14 pm

darkhorizon wrote:Bah, you guys are clueless

Uhh... ok dude. The only thing you brought up that hadn't been brought up before in this thread was OBDII tuning. I'd like to hear more about that, actually.

darkhorizon wrote:I doubt it would be worth your time to mess with running obd1 anyway, as a powertuner would make for easy obd2 tuning, with a bit more flexability for novice live tuning. Hardly any modifications to the timing/MAF tables have to be made, a 3bar map sensor table is about all you NEED to put in there as I asume that you are running more than 14psi.

Why is OBDII better than OBDI? The engine control algorithms are the same. The primary difference in code is that the OBDII program is loaded down with a bunch of diagnostic crap that's unnecessary on a modified car.

OBDII is actually slower to tune these days than OBDI, as OBDI can be made tune-on-the-fly via EPROM emulators. There are at least two OBDI tuning packages on the market that are real time.

Now... tell us about OBDII tuning, if you please?

nocutt · Post by **nocutt** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:28 am

It really depends on what sides of the fence you are comfortable with...OBD1 or 2 does have implications...more sensors can be seen as a blessing or a curse...but my opinion is obd1 is just more noob friendly...at the end, the results is what matters...

darkhorizon wrote:
Bah, you guys are clueless

:scratch:

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:07 am

nocutt wrote:at the end, the results is what matters...

Did you ever get your car done?