Uh Oh, I found a Northstar...

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:49 am

It's true .

1994 Cad Seville, wrecked in front end. 96,000 miles. Excellent inside and out, 32v, $1400.

I'm going to look at it Sunday. If I can get it down to $1000-$1200, I'll buy it I think. Sell the tranny, part/sell the car, and use the engine. I would then keep the maroon car, and just keep my modded crate 3.4 for if\when the current 3.4 spins a bearing. It would be a daily driver, and I'd drive it while I swap the N* into the black car. I think I am capable of doing a N* swap.

The only problem is that the N* swap is expensive, and I can't/won't sell my 3.4 parts becuase I'd need/want them for the maroon car.

I'm seriously considering this. Anything I need to know? Is 94 an ok year? Any better years?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:03 am

Apparantly this car either has the STS L37, which sounds like the better engine to have at a "higher revving" 300hp, or the SLS LD8 (Made for low end torque, but they say it performed better due to a tuned intake system, 275hp).

How do I know which one it has, are the bodies different?

donk_316 · Post by **donk_316** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:41 am

how is the N* swap any more expensive than the dohc? Are you talking stand alone ECM and shit?

Mounting is basically the same as a dohc along with fuel / coolant / etc etc

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:56 am

Aaron wrote:How do I know which one it has, are the bodies different?

If the RPO sticker says L37, then it has the L37 engine. Likewise for the LD8. Otherwise, remove a cam cover and measure cam lobe major axes. If the intake and exhaust are different, it's an L37, if they are the same, it's an LD8.

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:00 am

donk_316 wrote:Mounting is basically the same as a dohc along with fuel / coolant / etc etc

Mounting is WAY different than any V6/60. The front cradle crossmember has to be cut out and a new one fabbed 3" forward of the stock one. There's no convenient place or room to drop a mount off the front of the engine like the V6's do. You can make mounts that bolt to the sides of the block on either side of the crank pulley, but those brackets would need complicated contours and be difficult to make.

Other expenses...
Custom A/C lines
New fuel lines
Wiring harness (WAY more complicated than 3.4 TDC)
Special flywheel
etc, etc, etc...

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:42 am

'94 engine is doodie.

Well, unless you're going boost, then it might be good. You'd have to swap throttle bodies.

The Dark Side of Will · Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:53 am

Nothing wrong with it... it's still rated at 275 & 300 just like the newer ones. The older intake manifold is a little heavier and harder to work on, that's all.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:51 am

Ok the car is a 1994 STS, so it is (Well should be) a L37, which is good.

I understand and am ok with the swap being more dificult, I think I can do it. Do the later intake manifolds offer any performance advantage? Can they be swapped? This isn't a big issue, because I'd like to at some point put a custom intake on it anyways.

I don't think it's a bad engine, it sounds like the model to have. Higher compression too. I'm going to call about it in a few minutes. I wish I could just take the engine, but I doubt he will do that, I may have to take the whole car.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:14 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:Nothing wrong with it... it's still rated at 275 & 300 just like the newer ones. The older intake manifold is a little heavier and harder to work on, that's all.

well... actually it's rated at 270hp or 295hp due to the EGR setup... :la:

That aside, the only thing "wrong" with it is that nasty external ISM. You can't use any aftermarket ECM with it - they all control steppers, not motors.

So if you want to do any modifications, you need the 96-99 throttle body. If you're doing a custom manifold anyways, it won't matter I guess.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:16 pm

Aaron wrote:Do the later intake manifolds offer any performance advantage? Can they be swapped?

No. Yes, but it's a PITA. You have to drill and tap the heads.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:19 pm

That aside, the only thing "wrong" with it is that nasty external ISM. You can't use any aftermarket ECM with it - they all control steppers, not motors.

So if you want to do any modifications, you need the 96-99 throttle body. If you're doing a custom manifold anyways, it won't matter I guess.

What is the ISM?

I don't plan on running an aftermarket ECM anyways, but I would like to run a custom intake. But for that I'd use a different throttle body I'm sure (90mm LS1 sounds fun).

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:33 pm

Aaron wrote:
That aside, the only thing "wrong" with it is that nasty external ISM. You can't use any aftermarket ECM with it - they all control steppers, not motors.

So if you want to do any modifications, you need the 96-99 throttle body. If you're doing a custom manifold anyways, it won't matter I guess.
What is the ISM?

I don't plan on running an aftermarket ECM anyways, but I would like to run a custom intake. But for that I'd use a different throttle body I'm sure (90mm LS1 sounds fun).

the idle speed motor. It moves the throttle directly.

When I say "aftermarket ECM", I mean, anything other than the stock cadillac computer.

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:32 pm

Don't do it. Its a fairly difficult swap and fairly expensive.

Personally, if I could go back in time I would find a cheap Short *, a good turbo and an aftermarket ecu. That would be a badass combo.

Your fieros are 88s as well, have to modify the strut tower just to get the N* to fit. Means cutting a hole or beating it with a hammer.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:11 pm

Ok would the car be OBD1 or OBD2?

Cryzone, I realize it's a difficult swap, but I think I can do it. I'm good with all of the mechanical stuff, the only thing that scares me is wiring. But it won't be much harder than a 3.4, just longer. I think I can do it, and I also think it will be a much more worthwhile engine than the 3.4.

I have no problem beating my shock tower.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:25 pm

94 is obdi

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:27 pm

Actually, if I had to do it all again, I would save the $15k I have into my fiero and engine swap and buy a skyline :thumbleft:

donk_316 · Post by **donk_316** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:04 pm

crzyone wrote:Actually, if I had to do it all again, I would save the $15k I have into my fiero and engine swap and buy a skyline :thumbleft:

hahaha!! i fucking agree 10,000%!!!!! ME TOO!!!!

product1620 · Post by **product1620** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:24 pm

I'm not a big fan of Skylines, ever since I saw one with over 500hp (I think it was actually close to 800hp, but I can't remember) get demolished by a Cobalt with around 220hp, on Street tuner challenge. :la:

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:11 am

I thought about it a lot today, and came to this conclusion.

I do want a Northstar, and I think I will do one in my black car, but it won't be this one. First, it has more miles than I'd like. Next, I'd be stuck with the whole car, and I don't want that. Lastly, I'm kinda stuck financially.

I have a lot of money wrapped up in my black car's crate motor, and I can't sell it for near what it's worth because of the heads, and I'd like to keep it around for if/when the maroon car's 3.4 spins a bearing anyways.

So we'll see, I'm not in any big rush right now though.

z.MacK · Post by **z.MacK** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:32 pm

You have your nice 88gt on the road.

Some hack job 3.4 twin cam fiero, still not on the road.
You really want a wrecked caddie sitting around?

sure go all fiero5....go buy all the fuckups you can find in your area