Cam Timing

[greengoblin0129]

I'm about to start my 3.4 DOHC swap and heard that cam timing makes a night and day difference. How would you go about cam timing, any good sites that tells how to do it? Also, what are some other good mods for these engines while the engine is still out of the car? Havn't looked much into these engines as much as others, are there any good sites that tells more info and specs on the engine?

Thanks, Ryan

[Shaun41178(2)]

The thought of cam timing has never been proven on a dyno. Everyone just says yea it makes more power but I have never seen a dyno of it nor have I seen or heard of anyone actually doing it. Its all butt dynos which of course is crap.

If you are going to do it, I would def get it dynoed so you know if you have more power or not and if you hurt the overall powerband of the motor or not. Just don't take someones word for it. Te reason why people dont' dyno it is because changing the timing, well takes time, It doesnt' happen like with adj cam gears. Its a lenghty process. Of course this time spent on the dyno costs money, and you have to look at the people who drive the cars with these motors in them. Believe me, they aren't going to spend several hundred at the dyno shop to see what it does for power, when its much easier just to say it does with no proof and to just believe it for no good reason.

Too bad that guy is putting in a v8. His dohc with a couple mods would easily be able to beat a SBC and not have to worry about grenading the tranny.

Be carefull with that motor. I thought of buying his car, but I did some research on it first and he was talking about ticking or knocking noises coming from the motor and having low oil pressure. SO just be carefull. Do your own research on that.

[greengoblin0129]

The thought of cam timing has never been proven on a dyno. Everyone just says yea it makes more power but I have never seen a dyno of it nor have I seen or heard of anyone actually doing it. Its all butt dynos which of course is crap.

If you are going to do it, I would def get it dynoed so you know if you have more power or not and if you hurt the overall powerband of the motor or not. Just don't take someones word for it. Te reason why people dont' dyno it is because changing the timing, well takes time, It doesnt' happen like with adj cam gears. Its a lenghty process. Of course this time spent on the dyno costs money, and you have to look at the people who drive the cars with these motors in them. Believe me, they aren't going to spend several hundred at the dyno shop to see what it does for power, when its much easier just to say it does with no proof and to just believe it for no good reason.

Too bad that guy is putting in a v8. His dohc with a couple mods would easily be able to beat a SBC and not have to worry about grenading the tranny.

Be carefull with that motor. I thought of buying his car, but I did some research on it first and he was talking about ticking or knocking noises coming from the motor and having low oil pressure. SO just be carefull. Do your own research on that.

Thanks for the info! I did some seaches on the car and didn't find nothing about thoes problems when I first stated looking at the car. I'll look into it more and see whats up. What are some good mods for this engine. Would like to do somthing to it before I drop it in.

[Aaron]

Te reason why people dont' dyno it is because changing the timing, well takes time, It doesnt' happen like with adj cam gears. Its a lenghty process. Of course this time spent on the dyno costs money, and you have to look at the people who drive the cars with these motors in them. Believe me, they aren't going to spend several hundred at the dyno shop to see what it does for power, when its much easier just to say it does with no proof and to just believe it for no good reason.

Actually, it DOES happen like adj cam gears. If you'd like to watch, I'll adjust my cams to ANY setting in 10 minutes. The hardest part is taking off the intake manifold.

Shaun doesn't know shit about this engine, or how it reacts to mods. Don't listen to him. And we DO have proof that the 13* retard adds a lot of high-rpm power.

Now, for the mods. First, drain your oil. Add Mobil 1 synethetic until it is ON the max line. Then, put on a Pure1 filter. Next, check to see if you have a factory oil cooler. If not, get one. Now we can worry about horsepower. The 13* retard is a good place to start, but you want to compliment that. Let it be known your idle will lump a bit more, and your low end will be slightly rougher in response. But the high end gains are well worth it. If you have the money, a 96+ intake swap is a great mod. It reduces runner lengths by about 4", and nearly triples the plenum volume. You will need the 96+ lower intake, upper intake, rear valve cover, fuel rail, and injectors. As for the throttle body, you can use the stock 96 piece, though if you have some mechanical ability and the tools, swapping to a larger unit isn't going to hurt. I used, and will use on my black car, a LS1 75mm unit. You'll need some tuning after this, the high end fuel demands are dramatically higher.

If you still need more, you'll need to go custom. If I were you, I'd just plan a turbo. This engine eats up boost like crazy.

[Shaun41178(2)]

Actually, it DOES happen like adj cam gears. If you'd like to watch, I'll adjust my cams to ANY setting in 10 minutes. The hardest part is taking off the intake manifold.

Shaun doesn't know shit about this engine, or how it reacts to mods. Don't listen to him. And we DO have proof that the 13* retard adds a lot of high-rpm power.

GEt a video and upload it of you doing it in 10 minutes. You have to remove the damn intake manifold to adjust that shit? See what I mean. Not as simple as just having cam gears on the end. So add the cost of new gaskets too everytime you change it.

And aaron show me the dyno of the 13 degree retard so there is proof for everyone. A before and after. Thanks

[Shaun41178(2)]

Here is a guy looking to sell a fairly fresh dohc drivetrain right in Indiana and it includes the whole car which is still driveable. Has a 284 5 spd too which is rare. Or just buy the engine for $700. Not sure what you are paying for this other one from boosted

http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=34262

$1500 for the whole car and probably a better engine then what you are getting. Take what you need, junk the car, sell the tranny on ebay for a good price.

[Aaron]

GEt a video and upload it of you doing it in 10 minutes. You have to remove the damn intake manifold to adjust that shit? See what I mean. Not as simple as just having cam gears on the end. So add the cost of new gaskets too everytime you change it.

The intake isn't hard to remove. The only gaskets you'll need are $4 at the GM dealer, and that's for 2 of them. So the cost is $2. Wow.

I'm not going to, because I don't want to adjust my cam timing. I wanted it stock, that's why I put it stock.

And aaron show me the dyno of the 13 degree retard so there is proof for everyone. A before and after. Thanks

There can be proof besides a dyno. How about wideband O2 readings?

[SappySE107]

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[Shaun41178(2)]

aaron I would like to watch you do it in 10 minutes. So please make a video. I will host it for otehrs who want to see it as well. Whats the harm? Lets see how long it really takes. And it will only cost you $2. I will paypal you.

[Aaron]

aaron I would like to watch you do it in 10 minutes. So please make a video. I will host it for otehrs who want to see it as well. Whats the harm? Lets see how long it really takes. And it will only cost you $2. I will paypal you.

First, I don't have either of the tools I need. So go ahead and pay me to ship them out here. Also, buy me a video camera. The harm is between 16 credit hours and 40 hours of work a week, I don't have the time or the desire to do it.

Furthermore, it'd be a useless waste of time as I wouldn't even drive it afterwards. I know how they drive with the 13* retard, and I'd change it right back on this car.

[Shaun41178(2)]

So it should only take you 20 minutes then to change it and change it back. YOu are telling me that you dont' have 20 minutes? Just skip a masterbatory session one afternoon and find someone on campus with a camera. I am sure many people haev a camera.

Wanting me to pay to have the tools sent to you is a cop out. Very poor excuse.

You asked if I wanted to see you do it. I said yes, now you are coming up with excuse after excuse. Figures.

And I could care less if you drive it afterwards. I just want to see you do it in 10 minutes like you claim.

[Series8217]

Aaron, I'd like to just see you fit a torque wrench on a cam cog bolt in 10 minutes.
It requires dropping the rear of the cradle, dumbass.

[The Dark Side of Will]

There can be proof besides a dyno.

No, there isn't.
Wideband O2 sensors don't tell horsepower.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Don't care if you believe it or not, nor do I care if you convince people to do it or not, so yeah, no dyno.

I don't care about your beef with Shaun, but this attitude pisses me off. If you have real dyno graphs (not DD simulations), please share.

[rube]

It takes longer than 10 minutes to remove the intake, cam carrier covers and the timing belt covers with the engine out of the car and on a stand. If you have the earlier engine add the time it takes to get the cogs and retainers off (and on again).

[Aaron]

So it should only take you 20 minutes then to change it and change it back. YOu are telling me that you dont' have 20 minutes? Just skip a masterbatory session one afternoon and find someone on campus with a camera. I am sure many people haev a camera.

Wanting me to pay to have the tools sent to you is a cop out. Very poor excuse.

You asked if I wanted to see you do it. I said yes, now you are coming up with excuse after excuse. Figures.

And I could care less if you drive it afterwards. I just want to see you do it in 10 minutes like you claim.

Yes, I'm telling you I don't have 20 minutes. At least not to waste on this. If it is a cop out, then pay for it. I still won't do it, but having the tools here would be nice. You are more than welcome to watch me do it on my black car.

Aaron, I'd like to just see you fit a torque wrench on a cam cog bolt in 10 minutes.
It requires dropping the rear of the cradle, dumbass.

I have about 2" of clearence between the shock tower and the bolt, I think this would be enough. And you don't absolutely need a torque wrench if you can get enough using a normal wrench.

There can be proof besides a dyno.

No, there isn't.
Wideband O2 sensors don't tell horsepower.

You're right, they don't. But they do tell us that the engine is getting significantly more air past 5500rpm. The chip that was professionally made for a 3.4 with the 13* retard, when put on my car made it run pig rich past 6,000rpm, down to about a 10:1 A:F ratio.

I don't care about your beef with Shaun, but this attitude pisses me off. If you have real dyno graphs (not DD simulations), please share.

He doesn't have them.

[whipped]

20 minutes spent on this post. ^^^

[SappySE107]

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[SappySE107]

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[The Dark Side of Will]

Correct misinformation, but don't get hostile. Just lay it ouy like it is.