Runing a 3.4 (DOHC) water pump in reverse.

Forever-Fiero · Post by **Forever-Fiero** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:24 pm

Im wanting to use a groove pully on my water pump. The problem is now the pump turns in the wrong way. I know the pump is moving the water with centrifugal force pulling the water to it then out to the sides and it will do this know matter what way you spin it. The only thing is the fines are directional and im not sure how much this will hurt the cooling and flow of coolant. I thought of grinding them off and welding new one's on straight to move the water eather way it's terned.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:33 pm

Yes, if they're curved, they're unidirectional. I would not be surprised if all it did was cavitate running in reverse. If the impeller is pressed on, maybe you can get a machinist with an arbor press to remove it and install it backwards?

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:54 pm

not only are they unidirectional, but the surface is concave, so flipping it over will not work.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:55 pm

im confused on how running a different pulley on the shaft changes the direction of the pump though. Can you explain this more. The stock fiero 2.8 water pump uses a 5 groove belt, and spins the right way.

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:10 pm

if you switch groved to smooth, you swap rotation

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:08 pm

you can get a reverse impeller on the waterpump if you have a good parts guy, but they won't warranty it

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:29 pm

3.4 OHV or DOHC?

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:30 am

Series8217 wrote:3.4 OHV or DOHC?

i would imagine either - but the ohv definately

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:21 am

I believe this was for the DOHC, I saw a post about it on Old Europe. Everyone thought it was a brilliant idea...Did they really think it's never been thought of?

Running it backwards will not work, as said above.

The Dark Side of Will · Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:32 am

p8ntman442 wrote:im confused on how running a different pulley on the shaft changes the direction of the pump though. Can you explain this more. The stock fiero 2.8 water pump uses a 5 groove belt, and spins the right way.

Switching from grooved to smooth is done because of a change in accessory belt routing that drives the pull from the opposite side of the belt and thus reverses rotation.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:37 am

got ya. Thanks. Do they make special belts with groves on both sides? That way you wouldnt have to change rotation to get the grooved surface?

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:38 am

p8ntman442 wrote:got ya. Thanks. Do they make special belts with groves on both sides? That way you wouldnt have to change rotation to get the grooved surface?

only car i know of that uses one of those is the ion redline - cobalt ss --

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:49 pm

Kohburn wrote:
Series8217 wrote:3.4 OHV or DOHC?
i would imagine either - but the ohv definately

My question was directed to the original poster.
There is a reverse rotation pump available for the 3.4 DOHC.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:56 pm

Series8217 wrote:
Kohburn wrote:
Series8217 wrote:3.4 OHV or DOHC?
i would imagine either - but the ohv definately
My question was directed to the original poster.
There is a reverse rotation pump available for the 3.4 DOHC.

well that could elminate the belt routing to the top of the engine - guess it would simplify things for the people with no A/C

Forever-Fiero · Post by **Forever-Fiero** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:13 pm

3.4 OHV or DOHC? DOHC. Sorry for the confusion.

(well that could elminate the belt routing to the top of the engine - guess it would simplify things for the people with no A/C)

Yes. that is what im going for here.

(There is a reverse rotation pump available for the 3.4 DOHC.)

That is a big help!!! were can I get on at? Autoparts stors have it? Or special vender. I asked the guy at autozone and he laughed like it was a dumb question.[/quote]

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:16 pm

Forever-Fiero wrote: That is a big help!!! were can I get on at? Autoparts stors have it? Or special vender. I asked the guy at autozone and he laughed like it was a dumb question.

I'm also interested in knowing this!

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:28 pm

didnt someone do this for a SBC water pump so that you didnt have to cut the frame. Do a search on OE for waterpump for SBC and maybee you will find it.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:29 pm

try napa - they usually have older fellows willing to check the parts books and special order the reverse impellers

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:38 pm

Just so you know there is no way to tension the belt if you use the reverse rotation pump to eliminate PS delete. I spent a lot of time looking into this. You can't eliminate the PS delete without building some different tensioner system and due to the design of the front cover there's nowhere else to put it; so that isn't really any option. Also, moving the tensioner eliminates the whole point of using the reverse rotation pump to negate the need for PS idler. You still have to do the work.
If you want to just eliminate AC, it will work for that, but you still need a PS idler.
If you relocate the alternator to the AC position and make the alternator movable to tension the belt you might get away with it; but there really isn't enough wrap around the alternator pulley so it'll probably just slip under high load. You also wont have an automatic tensioner anymore.

The part number is Cardone 58322 (reman), Bosch 96041, AC Delco 252651. It should bolt right on. You can find them at the junkyard in Olds Firenzas and 1986 Cavalier Z24s. You can ask for a 1986 Cavalier Z24 water pump at the auto parts store.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:39 pm

The actual pump is a stock 3.4 TDC unit that costs $29 at autozone. It is reverse rotation unit with a cast iron impeller and was as close to the right general shape to mate up with the SBC housing from the several we considered. The SBC housing does require machining on the inside due to the SBC impeller being beveled and the 3.4's being flat and to make the entire package as compact as possible. There is an adapter plate because the bolt patterns between the 3.4 and the SBC are not the same and the depth of the 3.4 unit requires a spacer - but it can't be too thick! or there will be pulley issues

from OE here

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Archives/Arch ... 55138.html

They do exist.