Transmission Swap.

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:03 pm

I ordered a new trans today. I should be picking it up later on this week. Its still in the car so they'll call me when its all set to go. I don't know if this swap has been done at all yet on a SC 3800 in a fiero, I couldn't find any documentation on it. I figured I would post up my progress and problems, etc here as I go. Unfortunately I have to head down to NC this weekend with my sister so I won't be getting much done right away, but I should atleast have the engine out sometime next week.

I don't know how strong this transmission is, but it'll certainly be a heck load better than the isuzu i'm currently running. It'll be nice to use 2nd gear once again without worry.

There are a few issues i'm going to have to overcome. I've never had a getrag trans before so i'm unsure if any of the 91ish stuff will work. It would be great if I can use earlier style mounts, and the rodney shift linkage but we'll have to see.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:16 pm

I have the specs on the 2007 Ecotec F23 (M86/MG3). The transmission is the same externally besides bellhousing pattern. Not sure what ratios are in your 2200 OHV tranny.

Code: Select all

Maximum engine torque:	155 lb-ft ( 210 Nm)
Maximum gearbox torque:	170 lb-ft ( 230 Nm )
Gear ratios: 	M86                    MG3
First:	      3.58                    3.58
Second:	     2.02                    2.02
Third: 	     1.35                    1.35
Fourth:	     0.98                    0.98
Fifth:	      0.69                    0.81
Reverse:	      3.31                    3.31
Final Drive Ratio: (M86)	3.84( Cobalt, ION ), 4.17( HHR )
Final Drive Ratio: (MG3)	4.41( VUE )

The shift assembly and engine mounts are completely different from the 282 so you'll have to fabricate something to make them work. It's going to be a bit harder than a FWD 282 because of the cast aluminum counterweights and whatnot. You should retain those features.

I suggest looking on Old Europe at the Ecotec swaps that were completed. Those guys were using the same transmission since as far as I know nobody has done the supercharged Ecotec yet (which has the higher torque-capacity F35). The one I saw the guy just installed the Cavalier shifter and got used to the inverted shift pattern...

For the hydraulic TOB, you're going to need to find a way to limit your master cylinder stroke, or get a small bore master cylinder. I remember Drexter was blowing up hydraulic TOBs by overtravelling them with the Fiero master cylinder. He had the later model Isuzu, not a Getrag. I imagine the parts are very similar though..

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:11 pm

I'm no wiz at hydraulics, but could you cheat by shortening the rod going into the master cylinder bore from the clutch pedal?

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:14 pm

Yup. It'll make the pedal start lower though. Not a big deal if its still comfortable for you..

Boscolingus · Post by **Boscolingus** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:46 pm

make a new pedal with an added angle to compensate, or just go backyard engineering on it and cut it in two, throw in a wedge, and weld it back together

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:09 pm

Insert a travel stop tube in the MC :thumbleft:

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:30 pm

Do you guys know the volume of the hydrolic TOB, or how much I would have to limit the MC?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:53 am

Is this the same tranny used in the 2.4l Z24?

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:07 am

Edit, my bad, i thought u meant of the same era.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:27 am

No, not the Ecotec, the 2.4 that was halfway a Quad and halfway an Ecotec. Widely known as a bad engine...lol

It was an iron block, aluminum Quad head, with a plastic intake and ghey coolant system. It was teh slow.

p8ntman442 · Post by **p8ntman442** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:03 am

2.4L 96+ known as the twin cam.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:29 am

Jinxmutt wrote:no, the 2.4 is an ecotech and won't bolt to our engines.

I think I'm just going to get Rodney's adjustable banjo for the clutch and be done with it.

Edit, my bad, i thought u meant of the same era.

Yeah but this trans was used with the 2.2 - 2.4L ecotecs as well.. and in fact, still is used with them now.

Another note.. this trans uses different style synchros than our old boxes. GM actually specifies DEXTRON III for all the new manual trans.

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:36 pm

Picked up my tranny today. Its not as dirty as it first looks. It started to rain so i covered it with a bag I had in the truck. The bag I used to bring the grass clippings to the dump this morning.

Time to start tinkering with it and getting a better idea of how i will connect the cables and the clutch line.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:47 pm

Jinxmutt wrote:Picked up my tranny today. Its not as dirty as it first looks. It started to rain so i covered it with a bag I had in the truck. The bag I used to bring the grass clippings to the dump this morning.

Time to start tinkering with it and getting a better idea of how i will connect the cables and the clutch line.

Before I even try, is there any obvious reason I can't use my current isuzu cables with this trans? If I have to fab up the mounting locations, all they have to do is physically reach, correct?

They have to have enough throw as well. As long as those conditions are met you should have no problem using them. I initially used Isuzu cables when I installed my Getrag because I couldn't find any Getrag cables at the time. Just had to fab some brackets to hold them.

The Dark Side of Will · Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:48 pm

It looks like it has beefier structure on the right diff bearing boss than the 282 does.

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:13 am

I got it. One thing I noticed, this trans definitely feels lighter than the isuzu.

befarrer · Post by **befarrer** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:57 am

Is it me, or is the diff wider than the isuzu?

Also, those cables come in at a different angle than a FWD Getrac 282 I think, may make the brackets interesting. I can post a pic up of my brackets, I am using a 1990 Quad 4 Getrac 282 FWD tranny with Isuzu cables and custom brackets, seems to shift good, 19000KM and no problems yet.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:41 am

Yeah they certainly moved the shift arm waayy back. That's going to make things interesting. You have have to make some funky mechanical linkage to manipulate the factory shift arms indirectly. It looks like you'd have to get really long shift cables otherwise; and you may not be able to get them in at the right angle on a Fiero.
Does that thing have three shafts? I see two reinforced circular areas inside the clutch housing.. I wonder what that thing looks like inside? *nudge*

Jinxmutt · Post by **Jinxmutt** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:48 am

befarrer · Post by **befarrer** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:37 pm

From what I have heard, the Isuzu 5-speed shifter cables are the longest you can get in a Fiero, and the 4-speed muncie are the shortest. Since you have to make your own shifting mechanism, I would keep the Isuzu cables since they give you the most room to work on.