Serious Handling: HMS Slalom Front Suspension?

Blue Shift · Post by **Blue Shift** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:26 am

It seems pretty expensive, but does anybody have any insight or experience with the 84-87 Held slalom front suspension? I'd be installing an 88' rear cradle, with pivot points tweaked a bit as well. But yeah, unless it's completely not worth it, that slalom setup does look pretty interesting, if a bit pricy.

My goal is basically to max out the handling of my car for the purposes of street and backroads handling performance. Currently, it's really pissed off on uneven surfaces, twitchy, unpredictable, all fucked up, really. It handled pretty good when stock, but the tires are old/bald, and I added 100 lbs of engine and ~100HP and it's showing now. Still understeers some, but that's ok for now since I shudder to think what'd happen if I got it into oversteer at this point.

Once I get out of the state of financial coma and get some paychecks coming in, I need to do a whole suspension rework, brakes, etc. Any and all insights into getting an early chassis set up would be appreciated. I know I should start with the biggest tires I can get on the back, and ~205's in the front, and I want to step up from 16's to 17's while I'm at it. Maybe 17/18 stagger. Then I need some Konis so I can crank up the dampening, since wheelhop makes launching impossible.

Pyrthian · Post by **Pyrthian** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:25 am

you are talking expensive parts replacement when you cant even get decent tires on your car?

tires are #1 item when discussing handling.

and - yes - Fiero rear ends are no fun on uneven surfaces - but changing the front end wont change that one bit.

if not done already - you need: cradle bushings - the harder the better. new a-arm bushings - same - harder the better. new rear struts. alignment.
this will steady you on uneven surfaces.
for more: stronger springs & rear sway bar.
and, some maintainance - new rear balljoints & tierod ends.
if still not happy - new rear axle bearings.
if still not happy - dont drive Fieros - the rear will NEVER feel like a normal car.

THE PUNISHER · Post by **THE PUNISHER** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:43 pm

a couple hardcore autocrossers tried it and said it's no different than stock , just adds a bling factor

Fastest autocross fiero's still run a 88 rear with an 84-87 front

Blue Shift · Post by **Blue Shift** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:17 pm

Yeah the very next thing I'm going to do is buy rims and tires - I want to move up to 17's, or maybe 17/18 stagger, with decent rubber. I seriously hope to be making some money, at which point it can be a possibility. No job, no mods.

So the slalom setup tends to be mostly all show, no go eh?

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:51 pm

I can't see why this wouldn't be a big upgrade for a fiero

Upgraded shocks and springs
Access to a wide variety of spring rates
Access to a wide variety of shocks and damping values
Re-designed lower control arm increases initial caster setting and allows for more positive caster
Strong tubular construction reduces component flex under load
Increased camber adjustability when used in conjunction with upper control arm bushing cam sleeves
Different track widths available

Adjustable camber settings, spring rates, dampening rates. These are huge when it comes to setup and handling. As far as I know, the stock fiero front suspension sucks. No camber adjustment, shitty shock selection, no real spring selection and crappy stamped steel. If I keep my fiero it will be one of the next things I buy.

Blue Shift · Post by **Blue Shift** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:45 am

There seems to be a mix of opinions that I'm seeing, though not all of those opinions strike me as scientific (especially reading on t3h Old Europe). For the sake of argument, I'm going to say that ride quality is a bonus to me, and any tradeoff that leads to better cornering and control even if it's a bit uncomfortable is ok to me, long as it doesnt beat up the chassis. My goal, really, is to get from point A to point B on the windy backroads (with bumps, and gravel) with a great variety of turns and straights of different speeds and lengths, and do it on a daily basis without mourning broken or worn parts. Or the car.

Again, I'm going to do rims and tires first - going with wide rears and ~205's up front as suggested. I'm pretty much sold on doing the rear 88' cradle as it's both cheap, parts are available at the JY, and it hopefully won't suck that bad to do. Maybe change the pivot points a little to work best in lowered configuration, and possibly, go with rod ends to reduce compliance - it seems like there's a lot of potential for suspension flex, so perhaps firmer is better.

It all really comes down to the front - what setup up front on my 87GT will give me the best cornering speed and composure on real life roads, and why?

crzyone · Post by **crzyone** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:35 pm

Any suspension that offeres you a selection of spring rates, dampening rates, camber adjustment and better stiffness will be better than factory.

Now spending time adjusting everything to be optimal for what you want will be the tricky part.

The Dark Side of Will · Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:48 pm

It's not terribly expensive you modify your stock front suspension significantly first. Try that and see if it meets your needs. You'll get most of the way there with UHMW busings, Koni shocks, slotted ball joints and stiffer springs.

I've heard someone on the Fiero Racing List say that the Slalom resulted in incurable low speed understeer, but I'm not sure how thorough an evaluation that was.

Without having the geometry to evaluate, I'm not going to throw down the scratch for a Slalom.

FormulaGT · Post by **FormulaGT** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:10 pm

I put one of these kits on a customers car.

Went ok from what I can remember, its been a couple years. There were issues with the stock inner tie rods being too short, resulting in massive toe-in, but that was easily fixed with a correction piece from Held.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:53 am

check out this for comparison http://www.heidts.com/heip22.htm

all stainless parts - includes the rack the brakes everything.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:00 pm

Kohburn wrote:check out this for comparison http://www.heidts.com/heip22.htm

all stainless parts - includes the rack the brakes everything.

I doubt that's designed for a 3000 lb car.

What's the track width on the Fiero?

Blue Shift · Post by **Blue Shift** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:31 am

Kohburn wrote:check out this for comparison http://www.heidts.com/heip22.htm

all stainless parts - includes the rack the brakes everything.

That's some pretty cool hardware, but man that'd be a PITA to retrofit in!