Toe in or out?

befarrer · Post by **befarrer** » Tue May 13, 2008 11:47 pm

According to this Fiero book I got, for autocross it calls for a 0-1Âº toe out on the front. I thought all vehicles had a toe in on the front suspension. Is there anything bad about running a toe out on the front and daily driving? I would think it would wear the tie rods out faster since it is pulling on the inners instead of pushing on them when you are driving.

I am looking for more of an autocross allignment, but also one I can drive daily, in rain and sun, and some snow. Anybody have some experience on what works and what doesnt?

FormulaGT · Post by **FormulaGT** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:00 am

Yes, toe out is good for AutoX, but not for the street.

You will be all over the road, fighting to keep the car straight. Not worth it.

Series8217 · Post by **Series8217** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:47 am

FormulaGT wrote:Yes, toe out is good for AutoX, but not for the street.

You will be all over the road, fighting to keep the car straight. Not worth it.

Not true. Caster will keep the car running straight.

The Dark Side of Will · Wed May 14, 2008 7:21 am

FormulaGT wrote:You will be all over the road, fighting to keep the car straight. Not worth it.

Don't talk about things you don't know about.

Toe out is NOT bad.

You'll notice a difference in straight line stability vs. toe in, but you won't be fighting to make the car go straight.

You can NOT retain ultimate stability AND have maneuverability at the same time. The trades are mutually exclusive.

Pyrthian · Post by **Pyrthian** » Wed May 14, 2008 10:07 am

yup - make the car WANT to turn. a great handling car feels like CRAP to drive on the street. the brakes are bricks, the steering stiff, the tires feel flat.....

FormulaGT · Post by **FormulaGT** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:05 pm

The Dark Side of Will wrote:
FormulaGT wrote:You will be all over the road, fighting to keep the car straight. Not worth it.
Don't talk about things you don't know about.

Toe out is NOT bad.

You'll notice a difference in straight line stability vs. toe in, but you won't be fighting to make the car go straight.

You can NOT retain ultimate stability AND have maneuverability at the same time. The trades are mutually exclusive.

Do you know what your talking about? :scratch: lol

I have set toe out personally on my car, and it drives like shit. It is no where NEAR a stable as toe-in, and you WILL be fighting the wheel. It is a PITA and it is not worth it, I speak from experience.

Don't talk about things you don't know about.

FormulaGT · Post by **FormulaGT** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:23 pm

Series8217 wrote:
FormulaGT wrote:Yes, toe out is good for AutoX, but not for the street.

You will be all over the road, fighting to keep the car straight. Not worth it.
Not true. Caster will keep the car running straight.

True, but when you have toe-out, that car wants to wander.

I am just speaking from experience here. I have a 2" lowered suspension with stiffer springs and full poly. My cars reaction to alterations may be affected greater, than say a stock setup.

The Dark Side of Will · Wed May 14, 2008 12:42 pm

FormulaGT wrote:
The Dark Side of Will wrote:
FormulaGT wrote:You will be all over the road, fighting to keep the car straight. Not worth it.
Don't talk about things you don't know about.

Toe out is NOT bad.

You'll notice a difference in straight line stability vs. toe in, but you won't be fighting to make the car go straight.

You can NOT retain ultimate stability AND have maneuverability at the same time. The trades are mutually exclusive.
Do you know what your talking about? :scratch: lol

I have set toe out personally on my car, and it drives like shit. It is no where NEAR a stable as toe-in, and you WILL be fighting the wheel. It is a PITA and it is not worth it, I speak from experience.

Don't talk about things you don't know about.

MY experience is with my Northstar car, which has UHMW suspension bushings, rod end sway bar links and Koni shocks, with stock springs, bar and ride height.

Toe out in a reasonable amount is NOT a problem.

How much toe out did you crank into your setup? It sounds like you either used WAY too much or are having some issues with your lowered geometry.

Kohburn · Post by **Kohburn** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:48 pm

with toe out you will feel imperfections and rutting in the road because the tires will want to follow them. on really smooth roads its fine but on old roads it sucks.

whipped · Post by **whipped** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:54 pm

IMHO, toe out will make it feel darty. Personally I would stay neutral or toe in if you do any highway driving.

Pyrthian · Post by **Pyrthian** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:32 pm

whipped wrote:IMHO, toe out will make it feel darty. Personally I would stay neutral or toe in if you do any highway driving.

yes. and this is where the confusion is coming from.
auto-x alignment
not daily driver.

FormulaGT · Post by **FormulaGT** » Thu May 15, 2008 12:11 am

whipped wrote:darty.

There you go, thats the word I was looking for.