3400 with 87 2.8 timing cover and accessories

[Gooch]

I posted this on Old Europe and of course I am receiving all kinds of what I believe is contradictory advice.

Shaun has helped me out with this some but I want everyone to chime in.

I am going to be doing an engine swap in my 87 GT.
I am going to use the 2.8 timing and accessories (not heads, intake just stuff like alternator, water pump, etc.)
Can anyone show me some pics of how this looks?
Any helpful information about this swap?
I will be running a 7730 computer.
Can anyone show me a good picture of the hole that has to have a threaded plug installed behind the timing cover?
What size/thread is the plug?
Thanks!

BTW the 3.4 DOHC that I found for so cheap had over 200k

http://www.fiero.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/101981.html

edited to include link

[Shaun41178(2)]

I have a bunch of pics of how to do this. I got some of them from Turbogt on this board. Others I have just collected over the years.

The 3400 timing cover and block uses larger bolts in I beleive 3 locations. You will just need to enlarge the holes in the fiero timing cover and of course reuse those bolts. Like was also posted, the hole will ned to be plugged. However you do this is your choice. you can plug it or weld it shut or what not.

You can use the alternator bracket from the fiero. 2 holes line up. One on the front motor mount bracket, and the hole closest to the lifter valley. Turbo gt was able to slot a couple of the holes in the alt bracket to get the others to line up. This is of course may allow you to use the factory dogbone.

The front motor mount bracket will need to be shaved a bit. I have a pic of this too showing where.

I have pics of all this, but just need to find them and post them up.

[Shaun41178(2)]

pics

This shows which holes to enlarge in the timing cover of the fiero. This pic is of the 3400 cover though. YOu will probably need to enlarge the waterpump holes too but not sure on that yet.



This is where you need to trim the oil pan for the front motor mount bracket



Here is how an unmodified fiero alt bracket bolts to the gen 3 heads. YOu can see the bolt at the lifter valley and the one at the bottom for the front motor mount line up. Its the other 2 that don't. The alt bracket can be modified by slotting a couple of the holes to actually move the bracket upwards. You might need to modify the dogbonemount or make your own to get it to fit, but it is possible to reuse it.

[jelly2m81]

If your putting a 3400 in, why would you use the old stlye waterpump and alternator? thats like those idiots who install a new gen motor like the 3800 and use the junk Fiero alternator and starter on them.............pointless.

[fieromadman]

I agree with Jelly. I don't get the point of this? I know an unmodified 3400 is easy enough to install...

[Gooch]

I have everything I need, in working condition on 2 2.8 parts cars. I only have a 3400 longblock, intake and ignition components. No bracketry, no accessories.

[Shaun41178(2)]

If your putting a 3400 in, why would you use the old stlye waterpump and alternator? thats like those idiots who install a new gen motor like the 3800 and use the junk Fiero alternator and starter on them.............pointless.

I have answered this before but will again. Doing it this way allows the use of stock fiero coolant hoses and heater core hoses. NO custom hoses that you might not be able to find later. Fiero water pumps are cheaper then 3400 water pumps. Also no trimming of the decklid. Keeping the 3400 alt in the stock location would require trimming of the underside of the decklid. One guy on Old Europe had to actually cut a hole in his decklid as there wasn't enough clearence.

I am going this route as well, but also because I have all the stock fiero parts to do it, and none of the 3400 parts like timing cover and brackets.

[Gooch]

Shaun, did I somehow miss where you were thinking of/doing a GENIII swap? Also, do I use the Fiero balancer?

[I_wear_pants]

I am in the proccess of building a 3400 also. I have been trying to decide between running OBD1 or OBD2, any input on this?

[Gooch]

I am running the 7730 and my chip is being burned by a guy from 60degreeV6

[Shaun41178(2)]

Shaun, did I somehow miss where you were thinking of/doing a GENIII swap? Also, do I use the Fiero balancer?

I have a 3500 and have been slowly working getting it installed. Slowly because my current motor just won't blow up, so there is no motivation to get it in.

You should use the fiero balancer if you are wanting to use the fiero alt and a/c as the belts on the stock 3400 damper would be in a different location. You could use the 3400 balancer if you redid the alt brackets or fabbed up new ones.

[Gooch]

Shaun, you going to run your turbo set-up on that 3500? If so, that should be a good performer.

[Honest Don]

Good Info!


What else ya got?

[Gooch]

The 2.8 is out and should be bolting up the 3100 (large port) in the next few weeks.

[Honest Don]

anybody have some good pictures on how they're doing the throttle/TV cables? I have some ideas but its always nice to see the alternatives

[Shaun41178(2)]

I have taken pics of what needs to be done to put a 3500 in an 88. Might be the same for a 3400 too. I don't have an SD card slot on my new laptop though. DOH. so no way to transfer them unless I get them on a CD first or something.

Anyways you can't use the pre 88 mount in an 88 as the bolt holes are different on the cradle. You have to modify the stock 88 mount and mount bracket. Enlarging holes in the timing cover and waterpump are of course necessary as well. Also modification to the oil pan more then the pre88 is necessary too. The bolts used are m12 X 1.75 for the larger 3 of the timing cover holes.

I used a factory fiero harmonic balancer and underdrive pulley. By the looks of it, even the mark on the balancer lines up perfectly with the 0 on the timing plate. Either that, or its 180 degrees off as the piston on the number 1 is at TDC with the large notch at the 0.

Here is a bracket one guy made to show what you can do for the alt bracket to the aluminum head. not sure what was done to the bracket itself to clear the bolt heads though.

adapter_plate by Mick_2.jpg (26.74 KiB) Viewed 6904 times

Here is some motivation for some of you.

g.jpg (87.44 KiB) Viewed 6975 times

[Shaun41178(2)]

here is an alternator bracket option I have been considering.

p1.1.JPG (58.9 KiB) Viewed 6916 times

[flimbob]

Shaun,

I am also doing a 3500 swap and would like to use the timing cover and accessories from the old 2.8. I would assume you could also use Dogerunner's tensioner going this route. You mentioned using the 2.8 balancer on the 3400. Would you do the same on the 3500 and could I reuse the ac comppressor?

Michael

[Shaun41178(2)]

if using the front timing cover and such off of a fiero, I don't see why dodgerunners part won't work but I don't have it so can't say for certain.

yea you can use the 88 harmonic balancer on a 3500. I am guessing you are going DIS so it would be wise to cut notches in the balancer for a crank reference signal.

a/c can still be used but would need modification to the bracket

[flimbob]

I purchased the external crank trigger and the TB adapter from wot-tech. The external crank trigger should take care of dis. I guess modifying an 88 harmonic balancer for dis would eliminate the need for the wot-tech crank trigger. I could kill 2 birds with 1 stone( crank trigger and use of all fiero accessories ). I'll be getting my LX9 motor next week, so that's when the fun actually starts. I'd have to look at what modifications to the compressor bracket were needed. I'm assuming you haven't done this modification because you are not planning on incorporating ac in your 3500 build?