anyone do an LQ1/SC yet?

[slow'n'steady]

I have been out of the "scene" for a while. I am wondering if anyone has done a supercharged LQ1 yet? I was thinking now would be a decent time to look into since I never got to before like I was planning. I was thinking stock lower intake, custom upper of course. Just thought I would see if anyone has beat me to it.

More or less, I am just curious. I will have a spare motor laying around for mock-up, I was thinking it might be something to toy around with on the weekends or something. Don't really plan on it going anywhere anytime soon but...

[Emc209i]

Dave at 60* put an M90 on his Monte DOHC. He complains about it a lot.

[Shaun41178(2)]

best bet would be to use a centri if going with a supercharger. Those eatons are pointless on a dohc IMO. I suppose if you keep the boost low you can prob make 300 or so hp with the eaton but packaging will be a nightmare.

Its prob better and easier to go turbo. If its something you are thinking about, I have been looking to sell a turbo "kit" for a dohc. its in the mall if you want to check it out.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The 3800 guys run M90's up to 400 WHP or so, but that's running it WAY beyond it's design limits. MP112 would be a much better choice in pursuit of power.

However, I would also suggest a turbo over a supercharger.

[slow'n'steady]

Well, I like to be difficult and do things just to be a little different. I have had a dozen turbo cars, only one SC which was a SuperCoupe. Anyways, I will probably stay N/A before I go turbo, I was thinking a ported M112 would be decent enough for the LQ1. IF I did do it, I wouldn't be going crazy, may be 300-350 RWHP would be about it. I am just sick of "slapping" turbos on stuff. LOL

What are his complaints about the M90? I do remember years back when brought this up, everyone said the M90 would just be horrific on the DOHC but I don't remember all the details. Either way, it would be a ported M112 if I ended up doing anything with it. I just thought it would be fun to build my first really custom intake for a blower setup rather than do turbo stuff like I have so many times in the past.

Lastly, I know everyone hates my whole "doing it just to be different" thing but that is what I am into. Turbo may be easier and everything but it has been done a million times and if you want to go at it like that, Nitrous would be even easier. As I said, it is just "in my head" at the moment but now I have the shop, tools/equipment, skills and money to actually make it happen if I desire so, who knows...

[slow'n'steady]

Also, did "Dave" do a build thread or anything on it?

[Emc209i]

I'm talking about Dave96z34 of course. Do your homework, see what he's got to say.

Here's a great summation:
http://www.60degreev6.com/forum/showthr ... percharger

You're already unique enough by driving a 30 year old concept of a car. Throw out all drivetrain solutions except those which are proven. Owning a Fiero that's in the back of a barn having issue after issue ironed out pales in comparison to a drivable, reliable, Fiero.

[slow'n'steady]

Not to be "argumentative" but what issues exactly? I seem to here this kind of thing a lot all over the place. No matter what car/forum, if it hasn't been done a thousand times, people automatically say it is a horrible idea. I don't see how a properly done M112 setup would be any more of an issue than a properly done turbo setup or a properly done centrifugal setup.

I don't think it would take much boost from an M112 to get the 300-350 RWHP goal I would be trying to attain. I could keep my same exhaust, no crossover/down pipe to mess with, no wastegate/dump to deal with, no intercooler/piping to worry about (not that it is a MUST when turboing but...) etc...

Obviously there is a reason people choose to turbo over anything else but who knows, an M112 setup could be the "next big thing" LOL

[Emc209i]

Obviously there is a reason people choose to turbo over anything else but who knows, an M112 setup could be the "next big thing" LOL

I know you've been away from the game for years, so this isn't meant to be a brutal slam, more or less an extremely honest reply. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and sound like a dreamer from 2008. The M112 is a piece of fucking garbage, so is the M90.

Find a serious forum with people who are serious about making power (ex. clubgp, I know you have a DOHC, but there is no message board with people who are serious about the DOHC), and see what they say about your idea. They'll ban you when you come back a dreamy response like that.

Just being real. Go catch up, you've got a lot of reading to do.

[Shaun41178(2)]

There is a reason why more people do a turbo than an eaton. The turbo is much easier to package. The 112 is a big bitch. I have one, I know. There have been tons of people on old europe especially the 4.9 crowd who have bought up m90's to put on their fieros. You know how many of these projects have been completed? ZERO! In fact I have seen the same supercharger get passed around from person to person after realizing how big of a pain it will be to get it to fit and to work correctly. After getting the m90 they see just how big it is, and realize there is no place to make it fit.

GEtting a belt system designed and the 112 mounted and a bracket made is going to be a pain the ass. If you mount it on top, you won't be able to see out the back window. Sorry but not being able to fit it under your decklid won't make it the next big thing. The 112 won't fit in the engine compartment so you will have to mount it in the trunk perhaps. You going to use a 15 foot long belt with 18 idlers?

THere was a guy on Old Europe recently who was all gung-ho about putting an m90 on a 3400 pushrod. It was an 8 page build thread. He talked up and down about how a turbo system was going to be a ton of fabrication and a big headache. If you look at his thread, just to design an intake system to get the blower to fit on top was a freaking nightmare. Not only that, but just like everyone else before him, it never got completed. The thread tanked just like all the others. Don't know where the guy went, but he stopped posting in it several months ago. I think he finally woke up from his dream.

If you want to tackle an m112 then go for it. I don't expect it to ever be completed though.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Not to be "argumentative" but what issues exactly? I seem to here this kind of thing a lot all over the place. No matter what car/forum, if it hasn't been done a thousand times, people automatically say it is a horrible idea. I don't see how a properly done M112 setup would be any more of an issue than a properly done turbo setup or a properly done centrifugal setup.

I don't think it would take much boost from an M112 to get the 300-350 RWHP goal I would be trying to attain. I could keep my same exhaust, no crossover/down pipe to mess with, no wastegate/dump to deal with, no intercooler/piping to worry about (not that it is a MUST when turboing but...) etc...

Obviously there is a reason people choose to turbo over anything else but who knows, an M112 setup could be the "next big thing" LOL

It's not that it's horrible. There are lots and lots of ways to make power. If the only thing you're looking for is 300-350 rwhp, you could certainly get there with a 112. Matt Hawkins is over 400 with a turbo, though.

Gordon Murray, the designer of the McLaren F1, said that "the automotive problem is fundamentally one of packaging". That means the thing that's tougher than making power, the thing that's tougher than having powerful brakes, wide tires, capable suspension, good driving position and a stiff strong structure... is to fit it all in the space available.

If you want to go for it, I'll give you all the advice I can, but be sure you know what compromises you'll have to make going into the project.

[slow'n'steady]

Let me first say the "LOL" fallowing my "maybe the M112 will be the next big thing" statement, I thought that made it pretty clear I was joking. haha

I think I will snag a cheap M112 or even a really cheap empty case and go from there. Maybe once I have it in front of me or "mocked up" on the fiero I will see things differently and agree it is not a good idea. How tall is an M112? I don't imagine it being a lot taller than the DOHC upper intake? The only measurements I could find for an M112 say 8" tall, 10" wide and 24" total length (8" snout, 16" body).
As for the belt routing and what not... I seem to remember having to tap a hole on a bracket at the very top of the engine for an idler pulley. I would imagine (again I haven't looked at it in years so...) I could, more or less, replace that idler puller with the blower pulley. I don't see the blower sticking more than a couple inches out the decklid if ti is indeed 8" tall. heck, the DOHC upper has to be around 4"-5" in total height and still has a couple inches of clearance IIRC.

Lastly, that is the reason I want to look into this while I have a spare engine laying around. No down time, I can still be driving my car while I am working on the blower setup.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Let me first say the "LOL" fallowing my "maybe the M112 will be the next big thing" statement, I thought that made it pretty clear I was joking. haha

I think I will snag a cheap M112 or even a really cheap empty case and go from there. Maybe once I have it in front of me or "mocked up" on the fiero I will see things differently and agree it is not a good idea. How tall is an M112? I don't imagine it being a lot taller than the DOHC upper intake? The only measurements I could find for an M112 say 8" tall, 10" wide and 24" total length (8" snout, 16" body).
As for the belt routing and what not... I seem to remember having to tap a hole on a bracket at the very top of the engine for an idler pulley. I would imagine (again I haven't looked at it in years so...) I could, more or less, replace that idler puller with the blower pulley. I don't see the blower sticking more than a couple inches out the decklid if ti is indeed 8" tall. heck, the DOHC upper has to be around 4"-5" in total height and still has a couple inches of clearance IIRC.

Lastly, that is the reason I want to look into this while I have a spare engine laying around. No down time, I can still be driving my car while I am working on the blower setup.

With the blower, the snout needs to occupy the same volume as the decklid structural rail on the pulley side, even if the main housing clears the underside of the decklid.
You'll also need some non-zero height adapter (and an intercooler?) between the base of the blower and the DOHC lower manifold.
Also, you'll need at least an 8 rib belt to drive a supercharger reliably at that power level.

[Shaun41178(2)]

With the blower, the snout needs to occupy the same volume as the decklid structural rail on the pulley side, even if the main housing clears the underside of the decklid.

This, heck the 3800 guys sometimes have to notch their decklid rail to clear the blower snout. If you are going to try to use a m112 on the top, you will have to cut the decklid beyond the point of it being anyway functional so you might as well just leave it off. Or remote mount it down low so you can run an intercooler and piping to the TB. That will be the best way I think to get it to work.

Noone has done this, so I don't think you are going to be able to get a lot of real help on this issue. Sugguestions, yes, but no way for anyone to know what you are going to need along the way to get this done.

[The Dark Side of Will]

With the blower, the snout needs to occupy the same volume as the decklid structural rail on the pulley side, even if the main housing clears the underside of the decklid.

This, heck the 3800 guys sometimes have to notch their decklid rail to clear the blower snout.

Because of the narrow bank angle, the blower will have to sit much higher on the engine than it does on the 3800.

[slow'n'steady]

If I have to go the "remote mount" route, I might as well just do a turbo setup. I will have to just see it for myself before I realize that it isn't going to happen.

I would not run an intercooler, and the intake would be as short as possible of course. The only think I can think of for the decklid would be some metal braces or something along those lines. supports can be moved and still remain functional. Or, I can just use the "skin' and make it a pin-on or something along those lines. Again, I am just going to have to get it all in my shop and go from there. If all else fails, I can just do a turbo like everyone else.

[Pocket]

Ive done a few remote blower setups, so give me an ear

First off, you're nuts to even begin by chatting it up on a forum vs actually seeing where the blower will fit. If you have the fab skills to pull this off you have mind to figure out where it will fit feasibly

Second, you NEED an intercooler. They dont call them heatons for nothing. I can unhook my charge pipe at idle and cook your hand if that gives you any idea. One of my first attempts was a M90 non-intercooled using a 2.5 drive ratio. IAT hit 220* almost immediately and couldnt pull enough timing just to get a base tune

Which type of intercooler and where you put it is your decision to be made for packaging reasons later